carbon fibre acoustics - my rant....

[Daniel_M]

Hi all,

I should note that I have no affliation with any company or maker noted below - nor their distributors etc...

I was just curious about you guys think about of the growing presence of carbon fibre (CF) and composite acoustics.

My interest was pricked by the stuff that rainsong are putting out which are starting to look more traditional (their original series (black ice, I think have all that crazy random triangle pattern). Further searching found instruments by Composite Acoustics and then in a recent copy of Acoustic Guitar magazine there is a new carbon fibre by Blackbird which looks really nice (their earlier stuff seem to be more travel guitars).

Now I have always like carbon fibre Steinbergers – and surprisingly the CF acoustics sound like, well, acoustic guitars. Purest will no doubt scoff – and may dismiss the previous use of alternate materials as having no impact on tone etc… CF lattice bracing. But I would bet that if CF was more accessible then others would use it. And why not? Apparently Rainsong need to have there CF shipped in dry ice – I am not sure why.

If exactly the same tone was delivered by some rare spruce just found in the farthest reaches of northern Canada and only able to be harvested by pixies on a full moon – then I am sure that people would be praising the ‘bell or piano like tone’, the ‘unparalleled projection’ and the ‘complex harmonics’ …blah blah blah. (BTW these qualities are all noted in various reviews of the rainsong). then there are also the advantages of stability etc...

I would love to do a blind test with some of these ‘experts’ without even telling them that a CF guitar is present.

It is interesting that we accept/request a given type of tone because that is what we are use to – for example few would argue that ladder bracing an instrument is substandard from a structural sense and from what we may consider a tonal sense – in terms of clarity, complexity etc.. but it sounds ‘great’ because that is what we have been conditioned to. And we are just ‘that’ tone we hear on old blues recordings etc… I love my queensland maple and spruce Maton – because it gives me that Tommy Emmanuel sound more than my other acoustics.

Another point is that it makes me realise all this agonizing over the thickness of this top, or the dovetail bolt-on arguments, Ebony is no good for classical bridges type arguments are questionable given that these guitars sound great and have no wood and are constructed in a completely different way (the rainsong has no bracing for example).

the rainsongs start at $1799 in AUS.

My rant.

[Nick]

It's all a matter of personal preferences/choices Daniel. Some people love the sound of an Ovation, some people love CF guitars (must do, otherwise the companies wouldn't bother producing them), I don't mind the Steinberger Headless bass but that is amplified of course, so you aren't listening to it's acoustic tone. Some people hate brussel sprouts but I love them, it all comes down to personal preference. Nothing to say one is acoustically superior to the other, personally I like a warm full rich sound from a wooden guitar which I don't think can be gotten from CF instruments simply because of it's internal structure & strength, it's going to be different but not necessarily bad. I wouldn't knock somebody that had one because that's what they chose. I was watching an interview with Jeff Beck last night & he was saying a bit about each of the guitars he owns, his favourite? Was an all plastic guitar that Mario Maccaferri produced sometime after leaving Selmer (http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrings/ ... uitar.html). Jeff's reason for it being his favourite was because whilst it didn't have a superior sound to any of his many others, he could pick it up whilst sitting around the house & just blob out, he loved playing it.
If you like the sound of any guitar & the price is agreeable to you, I'd say go for it.

[Daniel_M]

thanks Nick,

Actually I don't know if I like the sound it was more an issue of how closed minded some people can be. And I must say that the vast and overwhelming majority of the people in this forum do not fall into this category.

As I mentioned just a rant

[kiwigeo]

Some people hate brussel sprouts but I love them, it all comes down to personal preference.

That explains the lime green Commodore...a definite green theme coming through there.

[DarwinStrings]

I like those carbon fibre guitars but I reckon they would be much better if they made them out of wood.

Jim

Life is good when you are amongst the wood

[Kim]

It really does come down to a matter of taste. If you like the sound of a rainsong, then good for you. The problem is that you had better like it a whole lot. CF is an inert material and 'structurally' that is a big plus as it does not move around with changes in RH and it is quite impact resistant so that is good too...but tonally I would miss that it does not develop and improve over time with the players skills, and to me, that growing evolving partnership is a very big part of owning a really good guitar. To put it simply, when you get better together you naturally become good friends. The other issue I have is that CF guitars really are homogenous..if you've have heard one, you've heard them all, and even if you do like the sound to begin with, most seem to tire of it eventually and move back to wood. Maybe because there is more chance of it becoming 'your' best friend, uniquely your best friend because try as we may, we can never build two that will sound 'exactly' the same and thank goodness for that or I would need to find something else to do.

Cheers

Kim

[Nick]

To put it simply, when you get better together you naturally become good friends.

I would need to find something else to do.

Think you've answered your own question there Kim (pervert!)

[Daniel_M]

Thanks Jim, I quietly look at the forum in bed on my phone while my girl friend sleeps - it annoys her no end - you post made me laugh out loud and woke her up! - cover blown. I am now on the lounge! Ha ha ha ha

[joolstacho]

I wuz thinking about this one...
I've made a range of geets using carbon/glass bowl structure with conventional spruce soundboards. I can't comment on Rainsong etc 'cos I haven't tried them.
My conclusions (on my work) is as follows;
My 12 string 'glass' version is more successful than the 6 stringers. It seems to me that my 6's sound almost too clean, with not quite enough aural complexity, whereas the 12's hit the spot. I'm thinking that possibly it's the smooth rounded interior without any backbracing that discourages 'tangled' soundwaves that can create nice complexity etc. Otherwise identical 12 stringers sound much better to me, -loads of nice complexity probably caused by all those octaves and overtones flying around inside, (so it doesn't need the tangles).
My wood 6's sound quite different (better) than the CF bowl versions, using the same soundboard / bracing etc.
All gut feel but!
Dry ice transportation? They'll be using 'Prepreg' which is carbon fibre cloth pre-impregnated during manufacture with epoxy resin, which is then oven cured in the mould to harden. So it needs to be stored cool otherwise it goes off prematurely (which can of course, be messy!)