Buyer beware???!!

[Chalks]

Hi everyone. I have been away for some time. By some of the banter still raging on here, nothing changes. Great! Just like your favourite spanner. Feels good.

I am not sure where to ask this so I will apologise now.

Does anybody know of and have had dealings with Alaskan Tonewood?

Chalks

[kiwigeo]

Hi everyone. I have been away for some time. By some of the banter still raging on here, nothing changes. Great! Just like your favourite spanner. Feels good.

I am not sure where to ask this so I will apologise now.

Does anybody know of and have had dealings with Alaskan Tonewood?

Chalks

Some personal comments from me and to be treated purely as such.

I have a list of tonewood dealers I do business with and Alaskan Tonewood is not on that list. For the record here are the guys I deal with:

1. Tim Spittle at Australian Tonewoods.
2. Shane Neiffer at HighMountain Tonewood.
3. Graham Hein - my main source of Englemann Spruce.
4. Luthiers Mercantile (LMI).


My criteria for choosing my tonewood suppliers are as follows:

1. a history of providing the luthier community with good products and service.
2. a history of responding promptly to communications regarding problems and fixing the problem straight away rather than not responding at all or responding with abuse and threats.
3. a history of treating amateur and professional luthiers on an equal basis..ie not looking after the professionals who just happen to also endorse their business while sending the crap wood to the amateurs.

Cheers Martin

[Kim]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2965

[Lillian]

From the Better Business Bureau. It is damn near impossible to get this rating without a lot of effort on the business' part.

[Nick]

As Kim's post linked to, don't get this company mixed up with "Alaska Specialty Woods" with whom I'd spend my money with anytime (& frequently do ).
Oh and the Avatar, a family pet or just a random image?

[Allen]

If you are looking for Sitka Spruce then Alaska Specialty Woods is the top of my list. Brent Cole is great to deal with and the product I get from him always surpasses my expectations.

It's good that you've asked, as it's a hard lesson to find a bad vendor when you're new to the game.

[Chalks]

Hi Guys,

I am sorry. I don't mean to be random in my replies or rude. I am in and out of stuff which can keep me away for sometime.

It's good that you've asked, as it's a hard lesson to find a bad vendor when you're new to the game.

Ooops! Too late by 400 bills. I really feel stupid. After not getting caught up in silly mistakes like this and being an advocate for checking many times before.....

Everyone, thanks but I think I am caught! I will let you know how it goes over the next few weeks.

Oh and the Avatar, a family pet or just a random image?

Nick, over the years you have a lot of people/animals in your life and she was an absolute treat. One of the bloodhounds we have had. She is gone now but she always brought a smile to the dial.

Chalks

[kiwigeo]

Ooops! Too late by 400 bills. I really feel stupid. After not getting caught up in silly mistakes like this and being an advocate for checking many times before.....

Everyone, thanks but I think I am caught! I will let you know how it goes over the next few weeks.

How did you pay? If you can reverse the transaction then I'd be actioning that right now. Failing that make sure you start a diary and keep copies of all communication with the vendor.

[Lillian]

Chalks, if things go south, contact the Alaska State Attorney. You'll definitely have a case of fraud. If the mail was involved, the FBI could conceivable be brought into the mix as well.

Here's hoping that this is one of the ones that works out well.

[Chalks]

Thanks Lilian and everyone else.

I will let you know what happens over the next few weeks.

Chalks

[kiwigeo]

Thanks Lilian and everyone else.

I will let you know what happens over the next few weeks.

Chalks

Or what doesn't happen. I hope it all goes smoothly.

[Chalks]

Hi everyone.

Well I said I would update you all as things progressed. Things are not going too well. I fell into the childish act of calling the dipstick names. They are true, but it is something a school boy does, not someone my age. I will totally understand if the moderators choose not to allow this up, but if they do I would like to say this.

John McCray of Alaskan Tonewood http://www.alaskatonewood.com/

DO NOT GO THERE. John will firstly take your money. He will then lie about delivery for months. Afterwhich, if you are lucky, you will recieve some of the order. None of which is to the quality paid for. You will be talked down to. You will be sworn at for standing up to John. Some people have been threaten with physical harm.

By the way do not confuse John McCray with anybody else of similar name. Do not confuse Alaskan Tonewood with any other company of similar name. Make sure you connect John McCray and Alaskan Tonewood together before you run in the other direction.

What you will not get from John McCray or Alaskan Tonewood is anything like what you paid for. The abuse is not extra. There is another company and I do not know the connection. J&S Products. Hmmmm. John's wifes name is Sandra. John and Sandra. J&S Products. Lay down with dogs ya end up with fleas.

I appreciate the power of small communities. Luthiery is one very small and tight community. Please spread the word. Spread it as wide as you can. Place the discussion on as many boards as you feel will benefit your colleagues all around the world. John McCray of Alaskan Tonewoods really needs to be prevented from harming any more people.

I thank you all for allowing this rant. When I get passionate about something like thieves and liars getting away with continuing to steal, well blood starts to get hot.

Last thing John McCray. LIAR, THIEF, CRETIN.

Chalks

[Allen]

Sorry to hear, but not surprised.

You won't find a single member of the Mod. team that will disagree with you, nor would I imagine that any of us would even consider to censor your post.

[Nick]

Thanks for putting your "Review" up Chalks, it will help other newer members here in deciding where NOT to shop when parting with their hard earned dollars. Sorry to hear you got well & truly done with a rough end of a pineapple As you say we are a relatively small community so when somebody actively seeks to rip people off word gets around but it's sad that there are businesses (& I use that term loosely in this instance) that like to take advantage & do so without any feeling of guilt.

[Kim]

So your saying that service has not improved much at Alaska Tonewoods then Chalks....

Sorry to read of your dilemma but yours seems to be a very standard experience for most people who has not heard the word and make the mistake of dealing with the McCrays.

In the hope it will help others avoid getting burnt I have just now updated the warning information with more detail about Alaska Tonewoods in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2965&p=40254#p40254

My advice to anyone considering and international transaction with any vendor with whom they have no prior experience is to NEVER EVER send money by wire or bank transfer. In this day an age, given all the available payment options, if a vendor is insisting upon direct transfer suggesting this is the only way they can do business, then alarm bells should start ringing for you loud and clear.

Chances are that such a vendor is applying knowledge gained from experience in past disputes and is manipulating you into a position of 'no recourse' ensuring that 'all' the cards remain in their hands. Such an arrangement can still work out OK just as long as everything goes well. But if there is a problem, that's probably when you will discover why they operate the way they do and were so insistent upon direct bank transfer or international money order, and my guess is that your not going to like what you find.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

Hi everyone.

Well I said I would update you all as things progressed. Things are not going too well. I fell into the childish act of calling the dipstick names.

I wouldn't worry too much mate....eventually you would have ended up calling this individual every name under the sun. Best you get the anger out of your system now and move on.

On a positive note..the news is not all bad. Just to make sure you don't give up on building because of a bad experience with one bad tonewood supplier and also to give you a taste of what REAL lutz looks like I'm going to send you one of Shane Neiffer's lutz tops. PM me your postal address and it'll be on it's way.

Cheers Martin

[Kim]

On a positive note..the news is not all bad. Just to make sure you don't give up on building because of a bad experience with one bad tonewood supplier and also to give you a taste of what REAL lutz looks like I'm going to send you one of Shane Neiffer's lutz tops.
Cheers Martin

Did I ever tell you about all my bad tonewood dealer experiences Marty??

Ur a good bastard mate..

Cheers

Kim

[Chalks]

Hey there. Wow! Martin. Don't know what to say. I didn't do this for sympathy, more for the good of some other unsuspecting sucker. I thank everyone for the support.

Martin, I will not stop because of this bloke. I think I might copy and paste my rant in another forum or two. Any suggestions?

Chalks

[kiwigeo]

Martin, I will not stop because of this bloke. I think I might copy and paste my rant in another forum or two. Any suggestions?

Chalks

I think you'll find McCray is known in most luthiers forums. I'd try and put it all behind you and get on with more important things like building guitars.

[kiwigeo]

Did I ever tell you about all my bad tonewood dealer experiences Marty??

No......here's ya chance to win one of Shane's lutz top sets. Go for it mate...

[Lillian]

Hey Chalks, contact the Alaska Attorney General. http://www.law.state.ak.us/ I don't know how far they will pursue it, but if what you tell them can be substantiated, there is a lot they can do with it. Write a factual email and lay it all out for them. The worse that happens is you get an apology from them for having a bad experience with one of their businessmen. Or they might be able to get your money back and/or put the bastard out of business permanently. Its worth the time to type up the letter.

[charangohabsburg]

Hi Chalks, too bad to see things seem to go in the wrong direction

But as it has been said, the most important thing is you just go on with your planned build. After all, over the time you'll spend more money on other useless things in lutherie, yet most likely not paying just one bill and/or caused by such a sick minded i**ot like this one.

Looking at Lillian's recommendation I would say go for it if you don't believe writing such a letter could provoke you a stomach ulcer. The thing is that if everyone thinks he could not do anything and all don't do anything this vendor of wood pictures will just go on. If no one tries to stop him nobody will top him. If he sells wood at all he certainly only serves the big and famous (?) ones (and I'd like to know who these 2 (yes TWO!) reference luthiers on alaskatonewood.com are...), he believes that the small customers are not worth his work he should do for the money he receives, and he is not afraid of them because he knows exactly that most of them will think "Well, I lost XXX dollars, fighting would cost me more $$, time to figure out what to do, time to do it and some nerves too". In addition many of them live far away, some of them on the other side of the globe. He feels too save and the ripped off are too intimidated.

I think I might copy and paste my rant in another forum or two. Any suggestions?

The ANZLF is the most tolerant luthier's forum I know on this planet.
Edit II: The ANZLF was the most tolerant luthier's forum I know on this planet.
If I were you I wouldn't copy/paste such a thing, it might cause you more non-desirable experiences. Maybe it's best if you first do a quick google search on the forums you want to post, to build in some references (links to threads) to other forum members there who lost their money with Alaska Tonewood (search like this: alaskatonewood site:the-forum-you're-searching-in.com). Then I also would write in a manner I would believe no forum-admin could see a problem with it (I would want my post stay there unaltered forever).

Well, that's just me and what would make me feel more comfortable in such a case. You should do what makes you feel more comfortable.

And, oh yes, I hope that people googleing for alaskatonwood will find this thread

Edit:
Hey, they even write on their website:

Don’t confuse us with other suppliers of Tonewood

Worst joke of the millennium!

[jeffhigh]

Many of the US forums won't allow discussion of this guy due to abuse, threats, including threats of violence, to the forum owners.

[Paul B]

It's exactly because of guys like him that we have a preferred vendors thing going on here. There's a couple of dodgy outfits out there.

Preferred vendors are just the mobs who have always done right by all of us, or, if they screw up an order (shit happens) they fix it quickly - they don't become preferred venders by giving us money, just by being honest. I guess most of us got ripped off at one time or another, usually when you're a newbie.

[Chalks]

Hi Guys,

Well time for things in my head to settle down.

• I have pasted into a couple of forums. In haste sure, but I let off some steam anyway.
  Jeff, yes the US forum knocked it back immediately. No probs.
  Lilian, I think I will do as you have said.
  Martin, Too late. I am not gunna get bogged down in this crap. I am too old. I only have so much energy to spend on oxygen thieves.
  So, build another it will have to be.

Thanks for the moral support. Lets this thread do its job now and let move on to other subjects.

Chalks