Australian/New Zealand Luthiers Forum

I made this one a while ago but you can see what I can do . I even have the inside inlaid but I couldn't get pictures of that. I hope you like it. This was based on forward shifted BRW and Red spruce

Sure you're not Antonio Tsai, in disguise? Stunning work....Likely take me around a year just to think about doing that....

Well done John. Epic inlay work, it must have taken many, many hours. So how does she sound??

Cheers

Kim

it sounds killer. The inlay was a years worth of work I even have the side supports inlaid

nnickusa wrote:Sure you're not Antonio Tsai, in disguise? Stunning work....Likely take me around a year just to think about doing that....

Only be about $135 +postage if it was Nick

Steve

Magnificent work John, but with the internal inlay , I'll have to bite, WHY ? can it be seen ?

"Pearlzilla"..appropriate name John
Whilst I'm not into alot of adornment I can appreciate the amount of work and love thats gone into this, great great work
Do you have any pictures of the back, just the little bit I can see through the soundhole that BRW looks like a nice bit of wood.

I will have to take some better pics.
I am on #153-154-155-156
have 4 on the run.

Given the cost of making such a guitar is inversely proportion to the price received for the guitar, they can be no more than factory curiosities as they could never recoup labour costs. That's what Martin did with these I think.

Where do your T(i,i) modes fall? Saying it sounds killer just does not cut it around here any more.

“All guitars sound killer, some are just more killer than others” So show us your plot
Cheers
Dom

What's a T(i,i) mode?

Regards

Bob Connor wrote:What's a T(i,i) mode?

Regards

I think John has heard enough guitars to know what does & doesn't sound good Dom, sometimes you just don't need mathematics to tell you. Whilst I can appreciate Trevor's techniques and approach to building, it isn't the only way.
Sorry to get OT John, we now take you back to your normal programming.

Dom


youtu.be/

peace man .

All the decent discussions in design on this forum over the past 12 months have used the framework based on Trevor’s 4DOF model. It has vastly improved the quality of discussion. In my view, the ANZLF is now by far the most lutherie-literate forum anywhere in the world. And we have just started. The conclusions reached set milestones which we can come back to as points of reference at a latter date. In this way we continue to advance our collective understanding. I recon its brilliant what we have done. Even more brilliant that Trevor did all the work and shared it with us.

The T(1,1)x modes are important and determine the lowest frequency which the top, air and back resonances are placed which in turn determines the sound characteristics of the guitar. Two close to a note on the fretboard and you get wolf notes. Too close together and you can get strange interactions, too far apart and they won't couple.

No you don't need the numbers to build by, particularly if you have lots of experience. But its good for others to know the numbers of a "killer" guitar. They could be well placed but on the high side which would bring out trebles more. Or you may want a guitar suitable for drop tunings. In this case you would want to place the T(1,1)2 mode lower.

Resistance to adopting this framework is perplexing. People are happy to tell us what scale length a guitar has. How many frets clear of the body, width of nut, width of lower bout, action at high and low E etc etc. Its a simple measurement procedure to generate a plot and tells us a lot of information about how the guitar will likely sound. A more appropriate question would be :Why don’t you want to generate a freq plot for a guitar?

So these days, on this forum, it is legitimate to ask these kinds of questions.

Happily there are a growing chorus of us like minded luthiers talking to the buying public, particularly round ACT/NSW. And from what I have experienced so far, the buying public seem to greatly appreciate the honesty and lack of BS and that answers are based on fact and not anecdote. They will soon start to seek out this kind of info and want to talk with luthiers that deal with acoustic science, not marketing hype.

Dom I Agree 100% but I think it is going to take a while for everyone to catch on and hopefully in the future we could post a few numbers and everyone will know exactly how that instrument sounds but until then mate

156 Guitars!! and Pearlzilla!! Well done! I think you'r well and truely paid up in the dues dept.

Hi Gents,

I have done Trevors course, and Posted the first Guitar with Falcate bracing on this forum(to the best of my Knowledege) so I'm a big supporter of Trevors whole concept, BUT I think it would be sad is we tried to impose upon everyone else the need to build by the same methods , or for that matter dismiss a Guitar as being a killer simply because it did not fall into the "ideal" T(1,1), There are alot of very , very good guitar makers around who use there senses of touch, and hearing too produce consistently fantasic results and have never heard of T(1,1) , will never buy the book , and will keep building as they always have done, so I for one would be dissapointed if those guy's stopped participating and sharing because a few " luthierial missionaries" starting imposing the new" Bible" upon them. I for one don't want to get into a d*#k pulling comp over who's got the best T(1,1) , Nor do I think that everyone would have the capability to fully comprehend a lot of the maths invoved , does not mean they can't build a Guitar , does not mean the guitar won't be good . I'm really pleased John has shared his build with us , I hope he continues to , If he's says it sounds Killer, then I think it probably does , remember also, it's all very subjective , there are people around who love the sound of Guitars that many of us would consider " too dark , too bright , too quiet , but to them it's perfect .

If you built a stage Guitar , used with fold back in the presence of other instruments that ticked all the Boxes in terms of T(1,1) etc, it would be far too responsive and sound shite, it would not be fit for purpose, but built as a stage guitar with the right pick up , it would sound fantastic , Hence CC popularity.

Anyway let's not get too imposing with the whole book thing.

So endith my rant for today.

Cheers,

ozwood wrote:Hi Gents,

I have done Trevors course, and Posted the first Guitar with Falcate bracing on this forum(to the best of my Knowledege) so I'm a big supporter of Trevors whole concept, BUT I think it would be sad is we tried to impose upon everyone else the need to build by the same methods , or for that matter dismiss a Guitar as being a killer simply because it did not fall into the "ideal" T(1,1), There are alot of very , very good guitar makers around who use there senses of touch, and hearing too produce consistently fantasic results and have never heard of T(1,1) , will never buy the book , and will keep building as they always have done, so I for one would be dissapointed if those guy's stopped participating and sharing because a few " luthierial missionaries" starting imposing the new" Bible" upon them. I for one don't want to get into a d*#k pulling comp over who's got the best T(1,1) , Nor do I think that everyone would have the capability to fully comprehend a lot of the maths invoved , does not mean they can't build a Guitar , does not mean the guitar won't be good . I'm really pleased John has shared his build with us , I hope he continues to , If he's says it sounds Killer, then I think it probably does , remember also, it's all very subjective , there are people around who love the sound of Guitars that many of us would consider " too dark , too bright , too quiet , but to them it's perfect .

If you built a stage Guitar , used with fold back in the presence of other instruments that ticked all the Boxes in terms of T(1,1) etc, it would be far too responsive and sound shite, it would not be fit for purpose, but built as a stage guitar with the right pick up , it would sound fantastic , Hence CC popularity.

Anyway let's not get too imposing with the whole book thing.

So endith my rant for today.

Cheers,

Thanks Paul I couldn't have put it better myself & at least your comments come from the standpoint of knowing the system so are a little harder to shoot down in flames, as this yet-unknowing heathen would be (I have the books just haven't got around to reading them).

Thanks Nick,

In regard's to how long I have been aware of Trevor and his building system, My Post was Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:28 am ( I now someone will check) a good 7 months after I had completed the Guitar, I urged everyone back then to go to Trevors website and have a look . Trevor acknowledges Strato and the AGMS as being pioneering in the implementation of his build methods and experimemting with the boundries of those methods , I say this again to hone the point , that I'm a big fan of the system , I have only pretty much used that system , and was one of the first to buy the book, but I do live all of my life by the " do what you do , and I'll do what I do , if your interested in what I do you will ask me and vice versa" philosophy.

When I build a guitar, I hand it around to at least five different Muso's and usually Jeff Highland and Strato from the AGMS and have it "Peer reveiwed" if you like, I don't always like what I hear but it's feed back that helps me improve every build . the muso's don't give a Rats about it's specs, they just care about the feel , the sound and the look . ultimatly if the Customer who ordered it walks away smiling then I'm happy.

Cheers,

+1 Paul

Muso's are generally interested in the sound, playability and appearance not the associated mathematics.
As a side-bar...I'd like to ask who was the better singer out of Pavarotti and Janis Joplin? Pavarotti had a huge sound, glorius tone and technical precision that stood apart from his contemporaries. Janis sang like Janis. Both have moved me with their singing. They are very different.
My point is that assuming there is finite location or pinnacle at which "perfection" resides is misguided to say the least. It's great that Trevor has shared his knowledge so that many can now build with less guess-work involved but some of us might enjoy the journey more than the destination.
Difference is what is beautiful in voices, instruments, people and everything for that matter.

BTW I'd love to have those skills, Tippie.....killer or not.

ozwood wrote:Anyway let's not get too imposing with the whole book thing. Cheers,

Could not agree more Paul... "The Gallery" is a place for members to share their work and perhaps receive a bit of acknowledgement for their efforts.

Just as they should be, most areas of the ANZLF remain open to discussion/appraisal/homage of building methodologies. But debating them in this area comes across a bit like a turd in the bath water so I hope John has not been put off. We should keep it in mind that John has much to share from hands-on experience ‘in the business’, and in eating the meat and spitting the bones some nourishment is guaranteed for all forum members…. regardless of their religious persuasions.

Cheers

Kim

Point taken Kim,

I usually use the forum late at night and am prone to be a little tired and emotional .

But my intentions we pure,I thought asking anyone , especially someone like John to justify himself was a bit rich , and I enjoy the diversity the forum offers and the different strokes for diffeernt folks feel.

I would hate to see that tainted by a show us your plot or piss off vibe.

Cheers,

Paul.

No problems Paul

Happy you stepped in to keep our gallery focused upon the finer things in life, like simply taking time to appreciate each others handy work.

Thanks M8

Cheers

Kim

Dominic wrote:Where do your T(i,i) modes fall?

Hi, I have just started on this wonderful journey of luthiery, what does the above refer to? I am always happy to learn and I see that there is heaps of experience i this forum. I see references to a book/system by Trevor? Who is Trevor and what is the book? Sorry if this seems off topic.

As to the inlay work. Wow! I am still struggling just getting neat rosettes done. Your inlay work is awesome.

martintaylor wrote: Who is Trevor...

Yeh, I often wonder...

martintaylor wrote:...and what is the book?

That would be this.

Makes a good Christmas present, so I'm told...

You might find this thread interesting, especially the last post (Page 3; not played on a bugle).

That "last post" (above) might not be the last post for very long, so try this post.