Hi, introducing myself

[amir]

Hi, I'm a very occasional guitar tinkerer, based in West Auckland. How's it going? I'm a beginner, I've made one guitar.

A while ago I made an SG-style electric, with a Yaka body, Maple neck, and a Pohutukawa fingerboard. The pickups were wound by a guy here in Auckland, I got some help from a local guitar builder for the project planning and various tips along the way ... In the end it's playable, but pretty flawed of course & I took literally years over it, because IDK, just kept getting distracted by life and left the project on a shelf for a year or 5.

My favourite part was carving the neck, and I also enjoyed shaping the body & fretboard. Fretwork was really hard but still cool.

I'm thinking I'd like to try an acoustic build next time, but maybe not for a while. This year I'm probably just going to do some research & keep an eye out for some cheap-ish timber & work out how get it resawn.

But first, I'm going to do some work on my old 70s Ibanez acoustic, to replace its worn-down frets & maybe replace its bridge. The existing bridge is already a replacement and it doesn't properly cover the old footprint. I suspect there's some gaps under there too, because you can kinda see where some of the top got torn off with the original bridge. I figure, if I screw it up then it's no big deal, I don't love the guitar in its current state, and it'll be good experience.

OK, I hope you're well & enjoying the Women's World Cup. I'm loving it so far & we got tickets to a few games later in the tournament. I'm happy for both Aussie and NZ (and England, because I'm a Pom) to get their first wins. Cheers.

[ozziebluesman]

Hi Amir,
Welcome to our forum. Sounds like you have some good, little projects to kick yourself off on the journey that never ends, building guitars.
Some advice for you buy yourself some older English, European chisels and learn to sharpen them properly. A scraper blade is a very good tool to have in the woodwork tool box and learn also how to sharpen them to. I can't say enough good things about Japanese saws, they are reasonably priced and once you get the feel of cutting on the draw when using them you will be able to cut straight every time.

If you decide on a scratch build buy the best material you can afford as if your take your time, ask heaps of questions on the forum here you will build a very good instrument.

Good luck with your quest.

Cheers

Alan

[amir]

Hey Alan, thanks for saying hi.

I should get some old chisels. I have a some old planes and spokeshaves, which are awesome. The stanley spokeshave is probably my favourite old tool. I have a scraper blade & it's good, but I don't feel like I've got the knack of burnishing it right yet. I did get a japanese saw for fret slots, and also a shinto rasp, but I don't have the classic trapezium shaped pull saw yet. Maybe that should be my next purchase...

Hmm, the best timber I can afford eh. That sounds like a good tip - the nicer the timber, the more I'll enjoy the journey.

I don't know my budget yet, I was wondering about this: https://australiantonewoods.com/shop/ac ... itar-pack/ because it seems pretty reasonable and I could just pair it with one of their B&S sets and get going.

I'd quite like to see about sourcing my own pieces though and getting them re-sawn. I might end up frustrated by poor results so IDK.

I'll ask on here once I've done some more research

[Taffy Evans]

Hi Amir, it's great to see new people join the luthier community, welcome.

I did conversions to guitars of my own and then repairs for others for about 4 years before my first serious guitar build, just to get a handle on the subject. No internet and books were only obtainable from overseas so it was a slow process. Alan's advice is good, I used the best I could afford, a scary build, lol:

My son's idea was different, and I had not ever thought of it. He bought his tonewoods but built his first guitar out of plywood so as to test the waters and build the jigs he needed. Then he was more confident at attempting the real thing. His first guitar was a keeper, my first a solid body, not so.
Old chisels work great, here are mine...

Enjoy the journey,
Taff

[ozziebluesman]

Hi Amir,
The kit you showed a link to I would recommend without question. The guy who owns the business is Tim and he has been a member of the forum as long as I have. I have purchased wood from Tim for almost 20 years and he is a great guy to deal with. I think a kit from Tim would be a better choice as finding your own timer is good fun but you need to know how dry it is, if it is well quartered, if it is suitable for a particular part of the guitar you are wanting to use it for. With a kit first up, you will be able to see what timber is required and then look out for alternatives.
Good luck
Cheers
Alan

[Mark McLean]

Hi Amir
I can add my recommendation for buying from Tim at Australian Tonewoods. He has a good reputation on this forum and I have got some good stuff from him in the past. That kit, incorporating something like a blackwood B&S set would be a good project. Other kit sellers like LMI, StewMac or Blues Creek are also good options (my number 1 was a LMI kit with pre-bent sides and slotted fingerboard as I didn't have the kit to DIY it at that time). It turned out pretty well (and all deficiencies were attributable to the builder, not the materials).

[amir]

Hi all, thanks for the warm welcome.

@taffy that is a gorgeous collection of old chisels. I looove the gouges, they look amazing. But yeah, more for carving I guess. Maybe they'd come in handy for a heel or a volute? For some reason I've not had the best luck buying old chisels. The 2 I bought had crappy loose handles and just didn't seem that great. I had much better luck with planes & spokeshaves. Probably I just need to keep trying and choose more carefully.

I do really like the idea of building a plywood trial instrument. I might even build a plywood instrument alongside the real deal, because I can make all my mistakes on that, and use it for templates too. Then the real one will be perfect, right?

@ozziebluesman & @Mark, thanks for the recommendation of Tim at Australian Tonewoods. I already got in touch with Tim to check if it's OK to deliver to NZ, he says yes and he seems like a good guy.

> you need to know how dry it is, if it is well quartered, if it is suitable for a particular part of the guitar you are wanting to use it for.

Yeah that's a very good point. I winged it when I bought timber for the body of my my electric, I just picked a random piece of timber on looks alone and it was fine. But for an acoustic, I wouldn't want to risk it.

I have received a verrry generous offer for a top + back + sides (from someone on here), so I might ask Tim for this smaller kit: https://australiantonewoods.com/shop/ac ... ck-option/ , or maybe some smaller combination of bits. I already have an ebony fretboard piece and some other offcuts, maybe something I could use for a bridge. I particularly like the look of the headplates they offer on AT, so I'm gonna get _some_ parts from there.

In the meantime, I've received a fret puller in the mail, and this weekend I'm gonna try pulling the frets off my old 70s Ibanez. I think they were originally small and I doubt they've every been changed before. I'm pleased it's not the greatest instrument because I don't have to worry too much if [when] I make mistakes.

Cheers

[amir]

Mark, I have wondered about pre-bent sides. I'd like to give bending a go, it looks like a very gratifying process, but I do worry that I might destroy some beautiful timber or at least bend it really unevenly. And if I have figured wood, maybe it's even harder to work with.

I guess I can try it on some non-beautiful timber first, and build up some confidence.

The good thing is I'm in no hurry. I have a nice guitar to noodle on [but not a nice acoustic], and I took literally years to build my first instrument so I'm used to stopping and starting again when things get tricky.

BTW is there a way to @mention someone on here? It's been so long since I've used bb forums, I can't remember how they work

[Taffy Evans]

Hi again, just another idea my son told me he did, and I tried it, in order to test his newly built side bender he bent up sides using MDF. Keep in mind it is nothing like tone wood.

A rule that I made for myself is to treat every repair/task as though one is working on the greatest instrument. I found it prepared me better for when that greatest instrument came along.
Cheers Taff

[amir]

Nice idea to try with MDF first. That would make sense for roughly dialing in temperature & moisture. I also noticed this: https://www.lmii.com/924-acoustic-guita ... r-practice . It might be good to pair a couple of these mismatched sides with a plywood top + bottom.

I like your maxim very much, I will treat my old Ibanez with care, even though I'm a bit dismissive about it. I more meant that I'll be willing to even try working on this instrument. But for example with my Gibson electric, I wouldn't dare to do any significant work on it, because I'd be too scared of damaging it. If I ever want work done on it, I'll take it to a professional.... but hopefully that'll change once I've got more experience.

Ta

[kiwigeo]

Before attacking a real side set get your hands on some cheap sides (eg orphaned side sets from LMI) or grab a set of Stewmac practise sides.....if they still sell them.

[amir]

Thanks, yeah it sounds like I should experiment with bending _something_ first.

I just ordered a book. Building the Steel String Acoustic Guitar by L.M. Mottola.

I nearly ordered the Kinkead one, then I changed my mind at the last minute. Mottola seems like a good guy with his free plans online, so I figure I'll use his OM style plan & use the book to guide me.

The book is only 2 years old so maybe it's not that famous yet, but the reviews seem very encouraging.

[Bob_H]

Hi Amir

I am a fan of the Mottola book. He also has a lot of good information on his website. He is extraordinarily thorough, and I found it best to dip into his book rather than follow him step by step. Another book, that works well as a companion to the Mottola book, is Guitarmaking: Tradition And Technology Paperback (Cumpiano and Natelson).

I recently completed a build based on Mottola's tripletta plans:

[kiwigeo]

Another book, that works well as a companion to the Mottola book, is Guitarmaking: Tradition And Technology Paperback (Cumpiano and Natelson).

I got started with Cumpiano and Natelson's book...but it's now a bit dated in places. If you're using this book check out Cumpiano's website for updates on things like neck/body fixing etc.

[amir]

This is amazing, Bob. It's so perfect. I'm a big fan of your colour choices - very tasteful. What tonewoods did you use?

Also very reassuring to hear that you liked the book & found it useful for the Tripletta. It's so nice to have the plans already, they seem pretty decent. I'll get a copy printed today, for the wall.

> Guitarmaking: Tradition And Technology.

Nice. I just requested a copy from Auckland Libraries. I'm preparing to nerd out quite a bit for this build.

[amir]

Another book, that works well as a companion to the Mottola book, is Guitarmaking: Tradition And Technology Paperback (Cumpiano and Natelson).

I got started with Cumpiano and Natelson's book...but it's now a bit dated in places. If you're using this book check out Cumpiano's website for updates on things like neck/body fixing etc.

Gotcha, ta. Here's the link to the 'updates/commentary': https://www.cumpiano.com/gtt-updates--commentary

[Bob_H]

What tonewoods did you use?

> Guitarmaking: Tradition And Technology.

Nice. I just requested a copy from Auckland Libraries. I'm preparing to nerd out quite a bit for this build.

Thanks Amir - the tripletta is black-hearted sassafras with a bunya pine soundboard. The fingerboard and bridge are jarrah.

And yes, I wouldn't attempt some aspects of Cumpiano and Natelson's original approach, in particular the neck attachment method. The updated neck attachment approach on their website is much more straight forward. One of the aspects of Cumpiano and Natelson which I do like is their use of "free air" building - they don't use inside or outside moulds, but a modified solera approach that works well for me.

[Mark McLean]

As I said earlier, for my first build I bought pre-bent sides from LMI because I didn’t yet have a bending iron. When I started number 2 I went to Gerard Gilet’s workshop where he also sold wood and tools. I bought an Ibex bending iron and got a few words of advice from Gerard about how to use it. I also bought two sets of mahogany back and sides - one nice figured set and one cheap plain set. Of course I tried the first time with the cheap set - and it worked perfectly. I thought it best to proceed with building that guitar with the cheap set. I considered this to be a “practice run” and thought it was likely that things would go wrong at any stage. It turns out that build had no problems and I ended up with a good guitar - but made of very plain wood. For all of that investment of time maybe I should have used the nice stuff, which 8 years later still sits in my stash.

Also, FWIW, I initially bought the Cumpiano and Natelson book as well as the Kinkead book. I found the C&N book to be dated and hard to navigate, while the Kinkead book seemed user-friendly and logical. But your experience might be different.

[Taffy Evans]

Hi, after bending side since the 1970s, shit can still happen. I used a new set and managed to use the damaged sides on a thin-body guitar. Phew:cl

SAM_2313.JPG (157.61 KiB) Viewed 51472 times

and after, saved good Mahogany.

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Taff

[amir]

ouf. Nice save, Taff.

My Mottola book arrived, and I already love it.

It's a big book. 500 pages of A4. It's so detailed and seems nicely written & presented. Pics + diagrams seem clear. Measurements are given in inches + mm, URLs are accompanied with a QR code so you don't have to type them out. It's a modern piece of work, even though the cover looks old (it's based on a 1904 magazine cover).

What I love most is that the plans themselves (for an OM and a dreadnought) are available for free online, and that it's aimed at people with relatively basic equipment. The only power tools he uses in the book are: drill press, band saw, trim router, plunge router and handheld power drill. There's a disclaimer about thicknessing, but he gives reasonable suggestions for having someone else do it, and even details a build for a router jig for thicknessing. An interesting thought.

I don't have a bandsaw - maybe it's time to change that...

I think the book itself is worthy of its own thread. I might post an overview, once I've read a decent chunk of it.

[amir]

This is also amazing... I think I'm going to keep coming back to these videos.

Jonny Kinkead talking his friend through an acoustic guitar build he built for him, in 2021. Kinkead seems like a lovely guy, very charming and enthusiastic and humble. So many tips and thoughtful explanations.

This is episode 1 of 5. Each video is about an hour, I've watched the first 2 and a half so far.


youtu.be/aAV9U3WzzP8

[seeaxe]

Hi

I'm on the North Shore if you need any local help.

Cheers
Richard

[amir]

Hi Richard seeaxe, that's really kind thanks. It does seem a bit hard to find dedicated timber merchants and tools in NZ for the stuff I'd like. Nice to know there's an acoustic guitar builder in Auckland. I know there's a few electric guitar builders, but not acoustic.

For my first build I'm using mostly Aussie timbers - some donated (by a very kind someone on here), and the rest I'll order in due course from Aussie Tonewoods... But for future builds I'd like to source NZ timbers as much as possible. It'd be good to swap notes on timber merchants - particularly if you know somewhere who'd help with re-sawing, that would be awesome.

...

So far I've been busy building contraptions for making the body.. It's taking a while to get things off the ground but hopefully I can start bending soon.

Contraptions:

1. Thickness sander: I've got most of the way building a drum sander. It's very basic, but it was pretty cheap to build and it seems to work. today I tried using it on some test timber with 120-grit, and it took the saw marks off it really nicely. I guess I'll put some 80 grit on it for thicknessing. The height adjustment part is a bit janky still, but it should be easy to improve it.

2. Bending iron: nearly there. I bought a used ceramic reptile-light fitting and an E27 200W 'heat emitter' - 20 bucks all in. For now I put an upturned cylindrical steel coffee thing on top of it, and I also bought a cheap infrared thermometer, which is awesome... The top of the contraption gets to over 100C after about 10 mins of power, which seems close to what I need. If I can find a chunkier bit of piping then it should hold the heat better. The heat emitter gets stupidly hot, like 400C or something. So, I might try to bend some practice timber this weekend.

3. I made a template & mould, although I'm not that happy with the mould I made. The top & bottom don't line up 100% right. It's mainly poor template routing by me .. With my plunge router and a one-sided template I ended up cutting at a slight angle in places ... So I'll try to fashion a basic router table and maybe re-do the mould from scratch. Maybe I can salvage the existing one, I don't know. But I do really want a router table so I'll do that first.

Good times so far. Cheers.