Falcate Braced Guitar No CF

[WJ Guitars]

I was looking at a recent Tom Sands youtube video see link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmtnACzaZ6k&t=261s

Tom was talking about some luthiers guitar builders and one of the samples included a Falcate braced guitar build by 'Salz-Guitars'. The guitar shown was a falcate braced guitar and appeared to have no CF on the bracing. See screen shot photo.

I like the sound quality of this guitar build. See youtube link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyp5ZSXbvZw

Be interested to know the forum's thoughts are regarding the bracing with no CF for this guitar hybrid design build.

Wayne

[Taffy Evans]

Hey Wayne, thanks for posting that video, it's just what I needed to spur me along. However, I can't offer any comments on the falcate bracing, I know nothing about it, but I will be learning slowly hanging out here.
Cheers Taff

[WJ Guitars]

Hey Wayne, thanks for posting that video, it's just what I needed to spur me along. However, I can't offer any comments on the falcate bracing, I know nothing about it, but I will be learning slowly hanging out here.
Cheers Taff

Yes Taffy, there is lots to learn about falcate braced guitars.

I wonder not having CF top and toe on the braces plus no upper transverse brace could be a long term structural issues. What are Trevor's thoughts on this 'Salz-Guitar's' hybrid falcate design?

Wayne

[kiwigeo]

Worth reading this old thread. Trevor goes into the reasoning for running CF tow on top and under falcate braces.

http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?t=9063

[peter.coombe]

My thoughts are that not using carbon fiber means the braces need to be bigger and hence heavier so the top will be heavier. The top itself also may need to be thicker and hence heavier so overall you won't get the maximum benefit from falcate bracing. As for the argument about carbon fiber on the top only or top and bottom, I use carbon fiber on the braces on my mandolins, but top only. However, there is a big difference in the forces between guitars and mandolins. Mandolins have a floating bridge so the force is downwards only whereas a guitar has a rotation force on the bridge. A guitar top bends in two directions, a mandolin top bends only in one direction so carbon fiber between the brace and top won't do much at all. The oldest mandolin with carbon fiber on top only is now 10yo and still stable.

[Mike Thomas]

When Rick Turner was living in Tasmania, I asked him why he had carbon fibre only on the top of his braces, on tops and backs. He said that he felt it wasn't necessary to have it on the bottom of braces, because the top itself (or the back) was already doing the job that carbon fibre would do. However, personally, I think that I would probably err on the side of caution, and take Trevor's advice.

[Steve.Toscano]

Be interested to know the forum's thoughts are regarding the bracing with no CF for this guitar hybrid design build.

Im more concerned about the lack of UTB on that top.....

However, on closer look at the photo, i reckon that top is not glued to the sides yet (otherwise why have the spool clamps there, and why no side braces yet?), so who's to say the top didnt end up with CF on the braces and an UTB ?

[WJ Guitars]

Be interested to know the forum's thoughts are regarding the bracing with no CF for this guitar hybrid design build.

Im more concerned about the lack of UTB on that top.....

However, on closer look at the photo, i reckon that top is not glued to the sides yet (otherwise why have the spool clamps there, and why no side braces yet?), so who's to say the top didnt end up with CF on the braces and an UTB ?

Good pickup on the photo Steve about the top not glued in yet. I can't see any flared tails of carbon fibre on the toe side of the braces. Maybe carbon fibre was added only onto the top of the braces after this photo? Although you would have thought showing a photo of the top braces would have been shown as completed. I guess that we can not be sure unless 'Salz-Guitars' in the Czech Republic were contacted on their instagram.

I noted on the youtube video sound sample in the comments section that Trevor's name was mentioned.

Wayne

[kiwigeo]

LOL Rick was an interesting character.....brilliant luthier but can't say I agree with everything he said.

Its my understanding that the CF on top of and below the braces is their to resist cold creep of the brace and add stiffness. I don't see how the back or the top can function to resist cold creep.

Rick Turner Bracing.jpg

When Rick Turner was living in Tasmania, I asked him why he had carbon fibre only on the top of his braces, on tops and backs. He said that he felt it wasn't necessary to have it on the bottom of braces, because the top itself (or the back) was already doing the job that carbon fibre would do. However, personally, I think that I would probably err on the side of caution, and take Trevor's advice.

[SalzGuitars]

Hello everyone, David form Salz guitars here. I love how the discussion evolved from my instagram photo. As Steve wrote, the top is not yet glued to the rim. The photo was only a work in progress photo, staged to show my progress. There are however CF strands under the braces, I'm building the se two acording to the book. The only difference is that I'm using structured sides (credit to Jeremy Clark of 52instrment co.) so there won't be side braces.

[WJ Guitars]

Hello everyone, David form Salz guitars here. I love how the discussion evolved from my instagram photo. As Steve wrote, the top is not yet glued to the rim. The photo was only a work in progress photo, staged to show my progress. There are however CF strands under the braces, I'm building the se two acording to the book. The only difference is that I'm using structured sides (credit to Jeremy Clark of 52instrment co.) so there won't be side braces.

Thanks David for confirming that you are following the book and using CF. Your guitar design and builds are excellent! Maybe you could send a photo to Tom Sands that shows the top completed that shows the CF on on the braces. I am sure that Tom would appreciate seeing these details.

Wayne

[Bruce McC]

Hi David

Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to seeing more of your builds.

[kiwigeo]

Thanks for the post David and welcome to the forum. I hope you'll stick around and join in the conversations and give us a peak at some of your builds.

Cheers Martin

Hello everyone, David form Salz guitars here. I love how the discussion evolved from my instagram photo. As Steve wrote, the top is not yet glued to the rim. The photo was only a work in progress photo, staged to show my progress. There are however CF strands under the braces, I'm building the se two acording to the book. The only difference is that I'm using structured sides (credit to Jeremy Clark of 52instrment co.) so there won't be side braces.

[WilliamDavidReynolds]

Hello everyone, David form Salz guitars here. I love how the discussion evolved from my instagram photo. As Steve wrote, the top is not yet glued to the rim. The photo was only a work in progress photo, staged to show my progress. There are however CF strands under the braces, I'm building the se two acording to the book. The only difference is that I'm using structured sides (credit to Jeremy Clark of 52instrment co.) so there won't be side braces.

Structured sides are amazing. I sand them on the radius disk without form. They just don’t deflect at all.