Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

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WilliamDavidReynolds

Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by WilliamDavidReynolds » Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:44 am

Title says it all. Anyone ever use neck reinforcement type/style of extruded carbon fiber for nut or saddle?
Was thinking with the bag between the ears the other day about this.

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ozziebluesman
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by ozziebluesman » Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:32 pm

G'day William,

Here is a link to Paul Reed Smith vid on the very subject, guitar nuts material.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3o2FHxz9O8
So I reckon just try the carbon fiber.

In my personal experience the difference in tone between say brass, bone, ebony and the synthetic nut materials is huge. You would think brass would be edgy in tone but it is far from that. There are no rules in music at the end of the day when you can a have a to guys play the same guitar and make it sound completely different just by the way they play it.

Good luck with your building.

Cheers

Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan Hamley

http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/

WilliamDavidReynolds

Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by WilliamDavidReynolds » Thu Feb 16, 2023 4:52 pm

ozziebluesman wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:32 pm
. You would think brass would be edgy in tone but it is far from that. There are no
I really like brass nuts, had a brass nut on a bass I bought before I started building and it was great!
Maybe a good idea for saddle if weight ever needed to be added to that extent. I am installing G/G’s bolt in weight blocks on sides though.
I’ll check out the video, my thoughts were, for in case I gotta loose weight on soundboard.
I’ve used bone on almost all my builds except an electric bass with ebony nut and saddle.
Thank you.

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peter.coombe
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by peter.coombe » Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:52 am

I use a carbon fiber rod (1/4 x 1/2inch) as neck reinforcement on all my mandolins instead of a truss rod. Works great. I would never use carbon fiber composite for a nut. It would be the quickest way to wreck all your nut files, so if you want to keep Stew Mac in business go right ahead. Should work for a saddle, but how it would affect tone I have no idea.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
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WilliamDavidReynolds

Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by WilliamDavidReynolds » Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:22 pm

peter.coombe wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:52 am
I . I would never use carbon fiber composite for a nut. It would be the quickest way to wreck all your nut files, so if you want to keep Stew .
Carbon fiber is in every guitar/bass guitar I’ve built except one acoustic bass and couple electric basses which have double truss rods,, five and six stringers.
As far as cutting carbon fiber, I ripped 20” long by 20mm wide by 4mm thick into two 10mm wide pieces with an Irwin hand saw like butter, and it was two years old, and didn’t change cutting ability afterwards.
I wouldn’t cut carbon fiber on bandsaw because I tried it once for chits and jiggles with a 5/5mm cross cut, as soon as the blade/teeth touched it sparked a micro spark and I pulled out.

Guess I’ll be putting carbon fiber nut and saddles on a guitar soon for a test drive to see what kind of sound change happens,, but this topic was mainly a venture into a solution of reducing mass at bridge incase it is required to bring frequencies down.
I do foresee the cross grain beveling possibly popping fibers, as cross cutting the rods to length ravages the fibers a bit on last strokes of the cut,, even when clamped down.

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Taffy Evans
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by Taffy Evans » Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:13 pm

Hi, my use of carbon fiber has mainly been limited to neck reinforcement and at times brace stiffening and not much else. I only just recently saw its use in guitar tops when I visited Alans [ozzibluesman] workshop and he showed me how he uses it.
In the braces shown, the main cross brace and the smaller one at X brace, the carbon fiber was laminated with maple so that I could get it to be a tight fit in the saw cut in the brace itself. Also as can be seen I used solid carbon fiber rods to buttress the neck block in this twelve-string guitar.
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I had not given carbon fiber a thought for nuts and saddles. But I have just polished up this brass nut to go back on a Twelve-string guitar I built in made 1978 and nearly finished restoring.
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Cheers Taff
Taff

WilliamDavidReynolds

Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by WilliamDavidReynolds » Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:12 am

Taffy Evans wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:13 pm
Hi, my use of carbon fiber has mainly been limited to neck .
1-DSCN4897.JPG
13-DSCF0564.JPG

I had not given carbon fiber a thought for nuts and saddles. But I have just polished up this brass nut to go back on a Twelve-string guitar I built in made 1978 and nearly finished restoring.
1-IMG_0162.JPG
Cheers Taff

What is the golden nut made of?

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Taffy Evans
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by Taffy Evans » Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:41 am

Hi, that fingerboard nut is made of brass. I'm putting this old 12-stringer [ #3 ]back to how I first built it so I'll try the brass nut and see how it sounds. Cheers Taff
Taff

WilliamDavidReynolds

Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by WilliamDavidReynolds » Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:08 pm

Taffy Evans wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:41 am
Hi, that fingerboard nut is made of brass. I'm putting this old 12-stringer [ #3 ]back to how I first built it so I'll try the brass nut and see how it sounds. Cheers Taff
I liked the brass nut that was on an electric bass I had years ago before I built.

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Steve.Toscano
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by Steve.Toscano » Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:11 pm

Yes, ive done a CF nut and saddle a handful of times for numerous reasons.

Few points
- It kills your files/saws.
- The dust from it is terrible for you.
- Aesthetically it looked pretty cool (i buffed them right up).
- No real world advantage i found when comparing to bone.

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peter.coombe
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by peter.coombe » Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:40 am

I am with Steve on this. The reason to use carbon fiber is because of it's very high stiffness to weight ratio. The is no advantage of a high stiffness to weight ratio material for a nut or a saddle, and bearing in mind the disadvantages, there is no good reason to use it.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
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gtrboy77
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by gtrboy77 » Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:40 am

I made a couple nuts from aircraft grade aluminum for a couple electric bass guitars a few years ago. I was fixing them for this dude that was in a metal band, and the way he would beat the hell out of his instruments, I knew a bone nut wouldn’t survive long.

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Taffy Evans
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by Taffy Evans » Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:03 am

Hi, I have strung up this old 12-string guitar using the original brass nut, and have to agree with Alan's comment above, it does not add any more of a bright sound than do the frets when playing up the neck. No difference that I can hear.
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:o I know, I know the strings are too low in their slots, I was new to the game in 1978. :lol:
Cheers Taff
Taff

WilliamDavidReynolds

Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by WilliamDavidReynolds » Thu May 04, 2023 2:02 pm

Steve.Toscano wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:11 pm
Yes, ive done a CF nut and saddle a handful of times for numerous reasons.

Few points
- It kills your files/saws.
- The dust from it is terrible for you.
- Aesthetically it looked pretty cool (i buffed them right up).
- No real world advantage i found when comparing to bone.
My main reason for this idea is weight reduction. I know it’s just grams. Did you do any weight comparisons?

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Steve.Toscano
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by Steve.Toscano » Fri May 05, 2023 11:18 am

WilliamDavidReynolds wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 2:02 pm
Steve.Toscano wrote:
Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:11 pm
Yes, ive done a CF nut and saddle a handful of times for numerous reasons.

Few points
- It kills your files/saws.
- The dust from it is terrible for you.
- Aesthetically it looked pretty cool (i buffed them right up).
- No real world advantage i found when comparing to bone.
My main reason for this idea is weight reduction. I know it’s just grams. Did you do any weight comparisons?
I just weighed one of my bone saddles - 2.1 grams. I don't have a CF saddle handy, but i'd take a guess for the same size it would be 0.5 - 1 gram.
So yeah, a micro saving.
You'd be better off using tusq I reckon.

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Taffy Evans
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Re: Carbon fiber Nut n saddle

Post by Taffy Evans » Sat May 06, 2023 8:25 am

Hi Steve, I had some carbon fiber with the same dimensions as a bone saddle blank, so I weighed them. Bone 6 grams, CB 4 grams.
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Cheers Taff
Taff

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