How to finish a white lute?

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

Post Reply
dulciepercy
Gidgee
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:08 pm

How to finish a white lute?

Post by dulciepercy » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:35 am

So this is my lockdown lute made according to the David Van Edwards tutorial.

I strung it up to see if it would fall apart, but so far it seems it holds together. Before I learn to play I need to decide on the finish. So far it has just a little bit of Danish Oil. Van Edwards says a beginner should avoid varnish if possible, but for lutes made of light wood (mine is all maple) you should varnish it to look like honey. The picture attached is in a halogen lit room and the lute looks a lot lighter in better light - if the rain stops I'll take it outside.

Before I do that I'm looking for advice. The tutorial says 3 layers of clear varnish to protect the wood, 3 layers of colour, 3 layers of clear to protect the colour, then polish. The Sydney String centre website says they stock Hammerl violin varnish but I haven't asked them in person.

Do I have options, or are there other products available (the String centre is only 10 mins away and I have to go past Bunnings)? Martin in response to my introduction said he plans to French polish his own lute. I've never done this and it sounds even more complicated.

Should I be happy with my oiled lute and just learn to play it?

Thanks for any ideas
Attachments
lute 2.jpg
lute 1.jpg

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10583
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:53 pm

You did a fine job on that lute...magnificent looking instrument. What strings did you fit and where did you get them from? Did you turn the tuning pegs yourself?
Martin

dulciepercy
Gidgee
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:08 pm

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by dulciepercy » Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:41 pm

Thanks Martin. I've very happy with it, even though I know where all the imperfections lie :-)

The strings are La Bella nylon from Strings by Mail. Only about $20 for a full set, but the 3rd course kept breaking, even tuning to A415Hz. I don't think it's a sharp edge on the nut, so I'm going to try nylgut from Aquila once I've decided on the finish.

I was going to do the pegs - the local woodturners club has moved to my suburb and I went up to say hello. They were happy to help but Covid stopped it. So I bought some from ebay made in India (about $50 for a set of 13 in boxwood and delivered in a few days). They are a bit narrow, don't match my reamer properly and I made the holes a bit big. But I made some bushings for the worst holes and it all works ok. There is plenty of wood to ream up for larger diameter pegs if it ever comes to that.

User avatar
sebastiaan56
Blackwood
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Mountains

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by sebastiaan56 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:23 pm

Nice job indeed. You can be proud of your achievement!

Ive just finished french polishing a bowlback mandolin. I also use Wurth spray Laquer but it was too cold and it went foggy so I reverted to tried and true methods. For the soundboard Ive been told that glair is traditional. Glair is egg whites whipped past stiff peaks till the liquid runs clear. Water resistant and tough. As for getting a nice yellow colour try Button Laq for your french polishing. Most natural stains such as coffee, tea etc are not light fast and will fade.
make mine fifths........

User avatar
Mark McLean
Blackwood
Posts: 1084
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:03 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by Mark McLean » Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:17 pm

I will add my congratulations for a fantastic looking instrument, which definitely deserves to be played so you need to get about learning to do that!
As far as finish is concerned there are many options. I agree that a traditional instrument like this probably doesn’t want a modern spray lacquer finish, and you are probably not set up for that. I would go with a hand applied finish and the two main options are French polishing with shellac, or a hand applied oil finish. FP is traditional, can be managed with a DIY setup, and can look great. Drawbacks of FP are that it is slow, requires many many sessions of application, and is not the most hard-wearing of finishes. Some of the regulars on ANZLF are very successful FP experts and can advise you.

My personal vote would be for an oil finish. You have already applied some Danish oil so you know how easy it is to do. But Danish oils (there are many different brands and recipes that carry that name) don’t tend to have great durability either. Best for instrument finishing IMHO is either Tru Oil or Evo Hard Wax oil. Both have the same ease of application as any oil finish but they produce a very hard and durable finished surface. Like all finishes they are repairable. If you need to fix something you can just sand it and then apply more oil on top and it blends in invisibly. You can get them to high gloss if you build up any layers and then level and buff. But if you want a nice satin natural look you can get that after 4-6 coats and rubbing back with steel wool.

dulciepercy
Gidgee
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:08 pm

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by dulciepercy » Sat Oct 08, 2022 9:49 am

Thanks Mark I like the idea of wipe on finish.

By Evo hard wax do you mean "Whittle Waxes Evolution Hardwax Oil - Gloss". Available by mail order from various places. Any bias for this or tru-oil?

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10583
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by kiwigeo » Sat Oct 08, 2022 10:31 am

French polishing sounds scary...but it's not. The great thing about FP is that it can be removed and you can go back to square one of you have a huge disaster.

The ribs on that lute look like a closed pore wood so you won't have to worry about pore filling. I find pore filling more frustrating then the french polishing sessions.

There are plenty of good tutes on french polishing. LMI have a tute that is one of the simpler ones....https://www.lmii.com/blog/2017/10/07/fr ... sh-finish/
Martin

User avatar
Mark McLean
Blackwood
Posts: 1084
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:03 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by Mark McLean » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:27 pm

Whittles is one brand of hard wax oil, and there are others like Osmo. I get a bit confused which is which as some of them are on-selling other brands. Seems to originate in Germany. You won’t find it in Bunnings. It can be found in some woodworking and timber shops (Carbatec have it), or in some places that sell products for hardwood flooring. It seems expensive, but you use very little to do an instrument so buy the smallest containers. Available as matt, satin or gloss.
Tru Oil is marketed as a finish for gun stocks. You can buy it in gun shops or online. Again, a little goes a long way.

Pore filling - what a pain, and why? So that real wood can look and feel really smooth like plastic? Open pores is my preference, but I seem to be in a minority with that opinion.

User avatar
lamanoditrento
Blackwood
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 9:50 am

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by lamanoditrento » Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:50 am

I'm with Martin, FP is not that hard just a bit of a learning curve and the real pain is the pore filling. It's basically just wiping on shellac, levelling and buffing. If you're going to go with satin oil finish both tru-oil and osmo easy to apply. I much prefer osmo feel under the hand.
Trent

dulciepercy
Gidgee
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:08 pm

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by dulciepercy » Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:14 am

Thanks for all the advice. Since I'm not doing the soundboard, just the curly bits and pegbox, I'm inclined to use oil/wax this time and save up french polish for my next guitar.

Now have to decide on Osmo (driving past the shop today) or Whittle Wax from Carbatec. Whittlewax has a "gloss" option and a small sample can that will probably be enough.

TKAY
Kauri
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:49 am
Location: S.E.South Aust.

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by TKAY » Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:08 pm

Congratulations, it looks great. As with any instrument build, in paticular, only the builder sees the "problems"!!
With my Lute, I brushed (many coats) of white shellac which was a good learning experience. When it comes to the belly ,stay away from anything which may dull the sound/vibrations, those finishes that soak in, actual or percieved. Egg white will give a very hard clear finish with little to no colour change.
I made a wax from Lundburghs book which seems OK, beeswax carnauba and Terpentine.
Having strings break points to a problem, probably a sharp edge somewhere. I have used rectifed nylon,Strings and Things, tuned to A440 with no problems, are your courses using octave tuning?
It will be interesting to follow the progress of your build,all the best with it
Tom.

dulciepercy
Gidgee
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:08 pm

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by dulciepercy » Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:26 pm

Thanks Tom
It's already done now 😊
This is what it looks like with 3 layers of Osmo PolyX. I've polished off some dags with 3000 which seemed to leave no trace. Didn't even take off the frets. The soundboard I will leave for now. It's got a light layer of Danish oil - mostly to stop masking tape pulling fibres from the Englemann Spruce. I might try the egg white on a scrap to see how it goes over the oil first.

The Osmo was available in a shop nearby so I bought it despite the price (about 4x per litre than Chivas).

I'll give it a couple of days to cure a bit more then get cracking with stringing up, and now the nut is off I can go over the grooves again.
Attachments
polished peg box.jpg
lute polishe.jpg

User avatar
Mark McLean
Blackwood
Posts: 1084
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:03 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by Mark McLean » Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:36 am

Looking very good

User avatar
sebastiaan56
Blackwood
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Mountains

Re: How to finish a white lute?

Post by sebastiaan56 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:13 am

Slick! One of the features of oil finishes is that they do yellow over time. This can be a feature or a distraction depending on your personal taste. Looking good!
make mine fifths........

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 155 guests