Identifying wood

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Peto
Beefwood
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Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:22 pm

Hello All,
Just a little intro first.
I came across wood from an Aussie guitar builder many years back and bought as much as I could. Now that I have more time to start working on a guitar I would like to know the name of the species of wood that I bought back then.
I worked at my grandfather's workshop in South America and as you might guess, it was always rosewood and spruce.
I can Id and smell rosewood a mile away but the other pieces that I bought I have no clue.
I could id blackwood and mahogany, King Williams was easy because of the smell, but there are some that I have no clue and I would like to use in my next build.
I am willing to pay for your time. If you are not too far I could load some pieces in my car and bring them where you live or if you prefer you can come to my place.
I am adding some pictures here
20210208_140623.jpg
maybe someone would know.

Jack
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Jack » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:57 pm

Hi Peto
I only dream of of using Brazilian Rosewood!!!
That looks a lot like King Billy to me
Makes a nice guitar

cheers
Frank

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kiwigeo
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:06 pm

Looks a bit like cedar....
Martin

Bruce McC
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Bruce McC » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:51 pm

Hey Peto

Give us a clue, where are you?
Bruce Mc.

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TallDad71
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by TallDad71 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:11 am

Measure them and calculate the densities, that will help an awful lot when researching on a wood database.

Definitely looks cedar ish
Alan
Peregrine Guitars

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:22 am

That was 35+ years ago in Buenos Aires. I am not sure about the situation of rosewood and what restrictions apply nowadays in Argentina, but I am sure it would not be as expensive as it is here.
I am in Lower Templestowe. coming back to this craft after more than 35 years, there is some muscle memory still there, but I am totally lost when shopping around for tools and tonewood.

Thanks for all the responses so far. I will add a few more photos soon, there is one set of beautiful red, pinkish, rose. I would like to use it soon here it is, no idea what species it is.

Ric

sleake
Myrtle
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by sleake » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:30 pm

That looks like King Billy pine to me.

Interesting that you said that you know the smell of 'King William pine'....... perhaps you have Huon and King william pine confused? Huon is a golden colour with a really distinctive and wonderful smell, while king billy is more pink and doesn't really have a particularly strong smell.

Anyway, thought that might help a little.

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peter.coombe
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by peter.coombe » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:31 pm

After looking at the picture closely, I can't tell if it is King Billy Pine or Western Red Cedar, but if I had to guess I would choose King Billy Pine. Cedar is usually darker, but some pieces I have are exactly the same colour as King Billy, and equally as fine grained. The only way to tell is to smell it. King Billy has a characteristic sweet smell, and Cedar smells like, well Cedar (not so sweet). If it is King Billy Pine, it looks like a particularly nice piece, which is exceedingly rare nowadays, so you are lucky.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
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Fisherman
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Fisherman » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:28 pm

Could it be celery top pine?

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peter.coombe
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by peter.coombe » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:35 am

Could it be celery top pine?
Nope.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
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Peto
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:22 am

peter.coombe wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:31 pm
After looking at the picture closely, I can't tell if it is King Billy Pine or Western Red Cedar, but if I had to guess I would choose King Billy Pine. Cedar is usually darker, but some pieces I have are exactly the same colour as King Billy, and equally as fine grained. The only way to tell is to smell it. King Billy has a characteristic sweet smell, and Cedar smells like, well Cedar (not so sweet). If it is King Billy Pine, it looks like a particularly nice piece, which is exceedingly rare nowadays, so you are lucky.
I have some King Billy tops and you are correct the smell it is very specific, sadly that piece that I am holding doesn't even have a smell or it is too subtle.
they are not wide enough to guitar tops so they might end up as necks.

Ric

Peto
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:24 am

another piece, this one is very unique, I m sure someone will know this one.
Thanks for all your responses.
Ric
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20210208_141203.jpg

Jack
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Jack » Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:34 pm

Hi Ric
ok i'll have a guess and say it's Tasmanian Myrtle
Which is one of my favourites for backs, sides and sometimes necks
There is a book by Keith R. Bootle 'Wood in Australia' which I find quite helpful for this sort of stuff.
I have a workshop in Melbourne's South Eastern suburbs full of machines if your interested
What sort of tools are you after? There is the Vintage Tool Shop in Northcote, maybe a look in?

Cheers
Frank

GregL
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by GregL » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:27 pm

Hi Ric,

The first pic looks to me like it could be either King Billy Pine or Western Red Cedar.
The second pic definitiely looks to me like Rose Mahogany aka NSW Rosewood, Dysoxylum fraserianum.

Thanks,
GregL.

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kiwigeo
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by kiwigeo » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:45 pm

I'm going to be the odd one out here and say Blackwood..Ive got a few sets of same that look a lot like the stuff in the photos.
Martin

Bruce McC
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Bruce McC » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:51 pm

I am with Martin :D #1 Thuja plicata, # 2 Acacia melanoxylon.
Bruce Mc.

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J.F. Custom
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by J.F. Custom » Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:08 pm

OK, so perhaps I am missing an important detail here but...

Although you purchased this timber in Australia, do you know that the timber itself is Australian in origin?? This information can help to narrow it down. Any timber identification from pictures alone is an educated guess, at very best. But I do love a guessing game, so I'm in!

If we are to assume like many luthiers in Australia, they had a mix of native and exotic species, I would suggest:
  • Picture 1: Old Redwood (Sequoia) or Western Red Cedar (Thuja). The latter should be identifiable by its smell readily enough, which you say is not present. It may be old and therefore not as noticeable, but a quick sand or cut would bring about its scent again. If you do this test and still have no smell, I would definitely guess Redwood. I've dealt with a fair amount of King Billy and it's not quite the right colour or grain for me - at least, not as much as Redwood etc. King Billy also has quite a distinctive smell - no, not like Huon, but pleasant and notable in its own right. Of course, my opinion only.
  • Picture 2: Tricky. Australian Blackwood (Acacia Melanoxylon) is a definite contender. The variation in colour like this is quite common. The Rose Mahogany/NSW Scented Rosewood mentioned above (Dysolxylum - which has a strong odour when worked too) is also possible, though its bands don't vary so much usually. Even Australian Red Cedar (Toona) can be like that on occasion. But if we were to include exotic species, there would be many others that could fit. Some of the Mahogany family from genuine Cuban (Swietenia), to Sapele and Utile for example, though I think you mentioned being able to ID some of those, so I'd lean back to the Australian candidates as the most likely.
As mentioned above, weights and dimensions would provide you the cubic dry weight, which could help - but it would still be guesswork from our lounge rooms. I'm no longer in Victoria - so can't help there!

Jeremy

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:04 pm

Hello,
Thanks for all that information.
In the lot I bought I had: Fiji and Brazilian mahogany, Bubinga tops, Sycamore and Engleman spruce. I guess that the wood without a name could be from anywhere, no just Australia although 70% was made of Tassie Blackwood back and sides.
I will bring the mystery pieces outside and try to get a better representation in terms of colour because the pictures I uploaded are not as vivid as the real pieces, especially the second picture.
Thanks again for all the help.
Ric

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:26 am

I hope this helps.

going by smell, the left piece is neck material that I know is red cedar with a very subtle cedar-ish smell.
The middle is the kind of cedar that inundates the workshop as soon as you touch it. very strong cedar smell.
Now on the right is the mystery wood 1. no smell or very subtle.
Attachments
20210215_125052-----2.jpg

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:29 am

The second piece:

There is a pinkish hue that doesn't show in the picture. No smell or generic hot wood smell.
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20210215_122409---1.jpg

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:31 am

This lot came in one pack and looks part of the same tree as it has a lot of holes and the exposed grain painted white. It is very very resonant when tapping, generic wood smell.
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20210215_123718-----3.jpg

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:37 am

Last one, the one on the left has mistakingly written in pencil blackwood, but Is not, smells slightly like cedar and I believe it to be cedar.
On the right similar in colour, a bit darker, but the grain is different, and has a generic warm wood smell.

That is all my mystery wood for now.
I truly appreciate the responses even if they are wild guesses:)

Ric
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20210215_124346----5.jpg

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:17 pm

Jack wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:34 pm
Hi Ric
ok i'll have a guess and say it's Tasmanian Myrtle
Which is one of my favourites for backs, sides and sometimes necks
There is a book by Keith R. Bootle 'Wood in Australia' which I find quite helpful for this sort of stuff.
I have a workshop in Melbourne's South Eastern suburbs full of machines if your interested
What sort of tools are you after? There is the Vintage Tool Shop in Northcote, maybe a look in?

Cheers
Frank
Hi Frank,
Not, Tasmanian Myrtle, I have some and the weight and hue are very different.
regarding tools and materials that I need could be more like knowing where to buy and avoid, to some extent the huge mark-ups here.
For instance, I have a lot of vintage and collector planes and chisels, but I thought maybe I am missing on something that new tools provide so I went to (I rather don't mention names here) a shop in Springvale and I found a 4/5 low angle plane was selling for more than $400 so I quickly came back home and re-sharpen my own one :)
I would like to upgrade my bandsaw so I can cut billets and have a more sturdy base.
Some Jigs are way waaay to expensive.
And finally, I would like to find a place to buy tonewood overseas because again the profit margins buying locally seem crazy. I don't want to irritate anyone complaining about their business model but I had to start looking overseas for wood.
Maybe it is because I am not selling the guitars I build guitars so it hurts a bit more :)

"I have a workshop in Melbourne's South Eastern suburbs full of machines if you are interested"

I would definitely like to visit when this lockdown is over.
My mob is: 0468 325 342 if you text me some details we could arrange a day and time provided that I can escape my wife's gaze and suspicion of another tool shopping spree :)
Thanks in advance,
Ric

Peto
Beefwood
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Re: Identifying wood

Post by Peto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:28 pm

I found this as Sequoia, It looks exactly like those tops I mentioned with white paint on the open wood.
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sequoia-sinker-acoustic-guitar-tops.jpg
sequoia-sinker-acoustic-guitar-tops.jpg (42.61 KiB) Viewed 20428 times

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