ebonising wood

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blackalex1952
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ebonising wood

Post by blackalex1952 » Sun May 28, 2017 6:08 pm

I am wondering if anyone has experience ebonising ringed gidgee?
...not sure such a dense wood like that would take the treatment -Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

routout
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by routout » Sun May 28, 2017 6:45 pm

I have used Ink on it went pretty dark then it was a bit murky ,that was a jet printing Ink with a shellac base.
John ,of way too many things to do.

blackalex1952
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by blackalex1952 » Sun May 28, 2017 6:59 pm

I was hoping to use the vinegar steel wool method...any ideas?
-Ross
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

curly
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by curly » Sun May 28, 2017 7:13 pm

G'day Ross , I'd be pretty certain that you would only achieve a shallow penetration of whichever dye or reactive liquor that you are using . Perhaps if there was something that reacted with the heartwood extractive that dyes my hands yellow when I'm wet milling Gidgee you may get better results .
It just so happens that I'm running some trials this week testing the uptake of resin into various timbers , gidgee being one of them . I'd expect it to be pretty poor in Gidgee . The basic cell wall density of all timbers actually varies little with the weight hovering around 1500kg/cu . Ive weighed Gidg in between 1200 and 1400 ( for real, i have a sample of 1400 dry ). That has to say that there's virtually no empty space for the resin ( or dye ) to occupy . That's my assumption but I've been happily wrong before . This is why i say though that the best results would have to be reacting something with Gidgee . Not that I've managed to stain Gidg in processing like you do by sitting a tannin rich timber( try vic ash ) on a cast machine bed or the tines of a forklift . Fungal invasion can send it black but effected material is usually denatured . Basic density is only one barrier to impregnation , the timbers own structure such as tyloses blocking vessels is another . I'm just happy to trial and see.
I'm also building another vacuum tank over the next month or so to try for complete through penetration of iron dye in heavy tannin rich Eucalypts ( for fingerboards ), I'd be pretty eager to test Gidg in there too .
I'll let you know some results .
All the best
Pete

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kiwigeo
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by kiwigeo » Sun May 28, 2017 10:58 pm

blackalex1952 wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 6:08 pm
I am wondering if anyone has experience ebonising ringed gidgee?
...not sure such a dense wood like that would take the treatment -Ross
Why Gidgee? Are you using it for a fretboard? I've used the process on walnut with success but walnut alot less dense than Gidgee.
Martin

blackalex1952
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by blackalex1952 » Sun May 28, 2017 11:03 pm

Thanks, Pete. I have seen sinker redgum and jarrah that is black like ebony used for fingerboards.
Yes, Martin, I am thinking of gidgee for an ebony look in some situations, ie to match the aesthetics of the other timbers and design.-R
"Everything I say on the topic is based solely upon inexperience and assumption!"

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Mark McLean
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by Mark McLean » Mon May 29, 2017 6:40 am

I have recently tried ebonizing a variety of woods like blackwood and oak. I haven't tried gidgee. I think the main determinant of success is not so much the density, but the tannin content. Woods with lots of tannin will darken really well. Those without (maple, spruce) will not. You can add some tannins to the mix by pre-soaking the piece in a strong black tea mix, then treating it with the iron/acetate.

Ebonization only alters the colour of the surface of the wood. You won't get it much deeper than 1mm, so if you sand it aggressively you will pretty quickly go through the ebonized layer. I imagine that softer woods might absorb it a bit deeper? Pete's idea of puting it under a vacuum to get deeper penetration could be a winner.

You definitely want to thickness and shape your piece before you ebonize it, and then just do a finish sanding. It can be glued like unfinished wood. If you happen to sand through it you can reapply the ebonizing solution and restore the appearance (but be careful you don't get it on any places that you don't want to be black).

Usual advice - do lots of practice on scrap first. You will find that the ebonizing solution will raise the grain. It is a good idea to pre-wet (this could be done with the tea solution), let it dry, sand down the raised grain, then go with the ebonizing solution - it won't raise so much grain with the second wetting, so you won't need to sand it as much to finish. Have fun with it!

curly
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by curly » Tue May 30, 2017 7:05 pm

Over the last couple of days I've run a trial utilising a strong solution of steel wool in vinegar on various timber species to test their reaction to the mix , along with depth of penetration .
Gidgee , Blackwood in both high and low density samples , vic ash , messmate , red gum and satin box were trialled .
The samples were submerged in the liquor under vacuum for 2 hrs , left to soak for 2 hrs then popped into the kiln to dry out
All went black to varying degrees barring the satin box which turned the colour of the liquor but not reacting to it . The best colour was messmate , with a deep midnight black .
Unfortunately the depth of penetration was not as convincing . The samples were then sent through the sander till half their thickness was removed from one side . The gidgee lost its colour first pass , red gum and messmate soon after , ash next . The hard Blackwood retained some colour to the core and light Blackwood had only streaks of its regular colour so is most promising for an ebony colour replacement though at sub 500 kg/ cu that's hardly going to work . If I can improve Blackwood to 100% penetration I'll then trial resin impregnation to bring its density up .
I have a second batch of identical timbers which have been put through the same process excepting for 12 hrs in the vacuum and a 24 hr soak . Those will go into the drybox tomorrow morning . If I get any improved penetration I'll report it through .
So as to the gidgee , yes it goes black , though it's less that 0.3 mm penetration
Pete
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Attachments
IMG_2882.JPG
Ebonised gidgee and Blackwood samples half sanded away
IMG_2871.JPG
Gidgee before and after ebonising

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Mark McLean
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by Mark McLean » Wed May 31, 2017 5:54 am

Very interesting Pete. Thanks for sharing the results. It looks like your vacuum treatment didn't get it much deeper than you would see just soaking it at atmospheric pressure? It certainly does achieve a nice uniform black colour in some timbers - just not to a great depth.

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lamanoditrento
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by lamanoditrento » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:21 am

Are you using a tannin agent such as quebracho tea Pete?
Trent

curly
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by curly » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:38 pm

In that quick trial I haven't added any tannins , it's simply a reaction to the tannins present in the timber . A 2 stage process might improve results and it's a good prompt . A couple of local wattles A.pycnantha and A.mearnsii are both traditional tannin species with up to 40% tannin content in the bark . I might try a bark tea next round .
Forgot to say the samples started at 6.5 mm to emulate fingerboard blanks .
I suspect that each species will have its own particular requirements to get the colour through . I reckon next step is to look at studies of preservative treatment of timbers . There's plenty of good data for regular commercial species , I'm pretty unconvinced that it can be done with gidgee though . I can't fathom how it would be possible to infiltrate such an impenetrable timber without going to extremes that damaging it .
Pete

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matthew
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Re: ebonising wood

Post by matthew » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:34 pm

black hair dye, the two part mix like Clairol and so on, works wonders on pale ebony and many other woods to get a long lasting deep black that doesn't wear off. yes some chemical reaction that seems to bond very well with the fibre of the wood.

I've tried all of the usual stains including tannin/iron ones and nothing is as good as hair dye IMO

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