Fretted to Fretless Conversion

[mickeyj4j]

Hi all I have a karina 4 string J/P p assume bass

I would like to convert it to a fretless. After pulling the frets out....
1a. Do I need to fill the fret slots in or can I leave then slots unfilled?
2. Would leaving the fret slots unfilled temporarily to test if I like this as fretless be ok?
3. If its best to fill them in, what would be a good filler product.

Here is what I think the filling process would be.
1. Using nail puller pliers to remove the frets.
2. Scrape in putty or other filler into the frets. Wipe of any excess filler.
3. Leave to dry
4. Sand frets and fretboard flush
5. Apply several coats of hard clear coating like varnish, apoxy. Not a soft oil finish. Allow to dry fully.
6. Use Flatwound strings so not to damage the fretboard.
7. Adjust the action lower as no frets.

PLAYING
when playing to get proper in tune notes place fingers directly over where the frets were not just before.

Ideally if it's best to fill the fret slots in, as this bass has a darker fretboard, I would prefer black color filler so from a distance the frets were hidden but I could still see them to play in tune. I don't know what wood the fretboard is made of maybe you can tell from the above images.

Thanks for any further tips, tricks and other info you can provide.
P.S. I am in Auckland New Zealand.

[simso]

When I convert an instrument from fretted to fretless, I like to insert some contrasting wood binding into the old fret slots, then sand level and wolla clean job

Steve

[seeaxe]

Mickey, a tip i got from Irving Sloane's book is to buy some old nail pullers/pincers at a garage sale or op shop and then grind the top level to form a flat top and get a single bevel where the jaws meet. This helps get the jaws under the edge of the frets and minimises chipping of the fret board. I keep a old pair in my fretting kit.

[kiwigeo]

Jaco slapped a few coats of epoxy on his bass........ and the rest of the story of course is history

You might find a few tips here: http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-234.html

[kiwigeo]

Mickey, a tip i got from Irving Sloane's book is to buy some old nail pullers/pincers at a garage sale or op shop and then grind the top level to form a flat top and get a single bevel where the jaws meet. This helps get the jaws under the edge of the frets and minimises chipping of the fret board. I keep a old pair in my fretting kit.

The nail pullers in Irving Sloane's day were probably made of better metal than the cr*p around these days. Ive got a couple of Stewmac pullers that work alot better than nail pullers. They're not as cheap as nail pullers but the SM fret pullers have small jaws and allow you to "walk" the fret out. Try applying a bit of heat with a soldering iron prior to pulling the fret.

[aljosha]

hy,

binding or standard veneer should be at around .5 or .6mm, so perfect fit for most fretslots

one mayor thing to keep in mind when doing this is that the intonation distance changes, and you might run into trouble with your bridge...
you dont need the fretmarkers on a fretless but there's nothing worse than having them in the "wrong place"
even if its just for others seeing you miss the fret...

and in my experience dead spots (and maybe lifespots) will get way stronger
at least on 3 of the 4 conversions I did that was the case, with one beeing unuseable in the high register (but not much a problem with frets...)

and with any conversion you will see where the frettang was pushed in to the board next to the veneers...


besides that, I prefer frettless and play mine in any situation (including grunge/metal jams)
and I play roundwounds, no problems (though no stainless steels yet) with non treated rosewood
you can lower the action drastically without getting annoing overtone noise/ fretbuzz
and you shouldn't fret hard for (that typical) sound and techniques sake

best
j

[kiwigeo]

One day I'm making a fretless classical.....Linda Manzer made one for Pat Methany. It can be heard on 'Imaginery Day"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbIGlolM9G4

[klooker]

These are my pullers. A pair of inexpensive end cutting pliers - less than $10 here in the US from the hardware store.

FretPullers.jpg (80.05 KiB) Viewed 23790 times

The tops have been ground down flat.

Use plenty of heat when pulling, I use an old soldering gun. After heating try to gently squeeze the cutter jaws under the crown. Don't squeeze too hard, when they are ready they should go under without too much force. The angle of the underside of the cutters will work as a wedge. Once they go under, don't pull up and don't rock, move the pullers along the fret and nibble it up with small bites, you may have to add more heat.

I hope that makes sense.

Kevin Looker

[56nortondomy]

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from ... s&_sacat=0
Ebay has heaps of fret pullers. Wayne

[jeffhigh]

0.6mm veneer works well. set it in place and then flood with thin CA.
Putty or filler will be weak and may leave the neck a bit floppy as well as tending to wear.
CA also works well as a finish for the board.

[Craig Bumgarner]

All of the above will work. If you do a lot of fret work, I can attest Summit fret tools are worth every penny.

https://www.jescar.com/shop/summit-ergo ... et-puller/

[blackalex1952]

Thanks for the link Craig. I like their bridge clamp!

[mickeyj4j]

Mickey, a tip i got from Irving Sloane's book is to buy some old nail pullers/pincers at a garage sale or op shop and then grind the top level to form a flat top and get a single bevel where the jaws meet. This helps get the jaws under the edge of the frets and minimises chipping of the fret board. I keep a old pair in my fretting kit.

I can't envision the exact angles, also don't have a grinder.

[mickeyj4j]

0.6mm veneer works well. set it in place and then flood with thin CA.
Putty or filler will be weak and may leave the neck a bit floppy as well as tending to wear.
CA also works well as a finish for the board.

Ok what is CA?

[mickeyj4j]

Thanks for the excellent advice so far.
So from what you have said I have some more questions.
1. Find some 0.5mm or 0.6mm vaneer or binding. I would prefer dark to black colored wood to hide the frets from a distance.
1a. Can I pick this up in Bunnings here in Aucklan, Or is there a better place?
1b.do I need to glue the vaneer in? If so what glue do I need.
2. Should I use varnish, or other finish, or leave as is.
2a.what would be the best ginish to use? I have some homemade wipe on true-oil. (This is made of 1 part gloss estapol/polyurethane. 1 part boiled linseed oil. 1 part mineral turps. I used several coats to finish a ukulele after I did a custom finish on it, And used it to finish stompbox foot drums etc). Would this be ok to use?

[jeffhigh]

CA is cyanoacrylate or superglue
It is the best in this situation since you can install a strip of veneer(may need to be cut curved) protruding slightly above the surface and then wick in the CA from both sides.
after trimming down and sanding flush you can also wipe on the CA to give a fairly hard surface.

[blackalex1952]

Firstly it would help to know the type of wood the fretboard is made of
CA glue is superglue
veneer can be found from a veneer manufacturer or importer. A slab of beer to the storeman or a small donation to the office Christmas party fund might get you the kind of quantity you need
If the fingerboard is ebony, wood can be ebonised by soaking steel wool in vinegar, strain thru a stocking after a few days of dissolving the steel wool then soak the wood in the solution...allow to dry and cut with a sharp blade into strips. But first, measure the width of the fret tang when you pull the frets out. It is worth heating each fret with a soldering iron first in case they are glued in. Fret pullers are all over ebay.
Most modern veneers are 0.6mm, so multiple veneers might be appropriate. Make sure the veneer is a neat fit or the fingerboard might be forced into a bow.
Fingerboards should not be oiled, and a finish is un necessary, particularly on a fretless as the strings will wear the finish away.
If the neck has side dots they will need to be removed and replaced with dots that line up with the "new invisible frets"
Given that the fingerboard in the photo has position dots on it, it might be a lot easier to replace the whole board with a new one.

[seeaxe]

Hi Mickey
I have some veneer, depending on your colour needs, it might work for you. You are welcome to come and use my fret puller. Pm me if you are interested and we can get together.
Cheers
Richard

[mickeyj4j]

CA is cyanoacrylate or superglue
It is the best in this situation since you can install a strip of veneer(may need to be cut curved) protruding slightly above the surface and then wick in the CA from both sides.
after trimming down and sanding flush you can also wipe on the CA to give a fairly hard surface.

What does one wick in glue?

[kiwigeo]

What does one wick in glue?

Use a low viscosity CA glue (eg Hot Stuff in the red bottle).

The tip that comes with the bottle is thin enough to use as is but you can also buy micropipettes that plug onto the normal bottle nozzle. Gently squeeze the bottle so the glue fills the nozzle and then touch it to the fret slot...capilliary action will wick the glue into the slot. Make sure to suck the glue back into the bottle to clear the nozzle after use otherwise the glue will set and plug the nozzle.

[mickeyj4j]

What does one wick in glue?

Use a low viscosity CA glue (eg Hot Stuff in the red bottle).

HS-4.jpg

The tip that comes with the bottle is thin enough to use as is but you can also buy micropipettes that plug onto the normal bottle nozzle. Gently squeeze the bottle so the glue fills the nozzle and then touch it to the fret slot...capilliary action will wick the glue into the slot. Make sure to suck the glue back into the bottle to clear the nozzle after use otherwise the glue will set and plug the nozzle.

Ok is Hot Stuff available in NZ.

[56nortondomy]

Loctite 406 is also a good low viscosity glue, that,s what I use.
Wayne

[kiwigeo]

Carbatec normally stock it. I got mine here but they wont post out the accelerator because it's in an aerosol. They also have the spare tips and micropipettes. http://www.thewoodsmith.com.au/thewoods ... tuff01.htm

[jeffhigh]

I'll just add that doing it this way with CA and veneer, and a CA finish wiped on the board is really fast, I did a customers Bass in 24hrs easily. (with about 4 hours total work time)

[seeaxe]

Also stocked in carbatec nz, they are on Harris road east tamaki. They have a good website.
Cheers