Which Power Sander and Table Saw

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:26 pm

Okay I have some loot to burn and the boss is in a good mood so its time to buy some machinery.

What power sanders are you guys using and what is good and bad about them? The Performax machines seem to be popular. Choice of 10-20, 16-32 or 22-44" models.

Table Saws. No idea what Im after but Carbatec dont seem too bad.

Any assistance appreciated.

Cheers Martin

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:48 pm

We've got a Performax 16-32 Martin and we're reasonably happy with it.

The only thing I don't like at present is the rubber replacment mat we put on it. It slips like all get out and you've got to hold the wood on to it.

I've been eyeing this one off as an eventual replacement. It's about $900 more than the 16-32 but 635mm (25") wide and has dual sanding drums.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:21 am

Hey Martin,

I have a Performax 16-32 as does Tim. I have worked mine a bit with no drama and Tim has worked the devil out of his and from last reports is still happy to just replace belts as required. Mind, that sucker Bob posted look pretty impressive.

As for a table saw? It's simple, IMHO you either go with the best new "cabinet" (enclosed) saw you can afford or better still, get a quality 2nd hand commercial quality saw and tune it yourself, once done, you will never regret it.

Cast 'IRON' is important IMO as is a hefty trunnion. DO NOT BUY A CHEAP CONTRACTOR SAW AND EXPECT THE RESULTS YOU NEED FOR FINE WOOD WORK OR CONSERVATION OF FIRST CLASS WOOD. It hurts to toss a nice fretboard away cause the slots you cut with your jig are too wide due to wobble caused by a poorly cast housing or a weak and poor quality trunnion. If you have a saw like that, you can put stabilisers on the blade until the cows come home but NOTHING will ever make it useful unless your short of a pot plant stand.

10" is plenty big enough for lutherie but make sure it has a QUALITY motor of around 2HP. Other than that they are a simple machine; They're simply pure gold if you have a good one, and they are simply pure frustration if you don't.

Cheers

Kim

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:56 am

I've got the Performax 10-20 and it's a great little machine. Set up was dead on out of the box, and while you do need to flip joined plates if you want to run them through the sander, what it's used for 90% of the time is just small stuff and the unjoined plates that it handles very easily. Plus, sandpaper changes are much less expensive with the shorter drum.

As for table saws, I'm in the same dilemma right now. I hate buying something that'll just do for the time being, then want to, or have to replace because it's not up to the job. I've been considering the Powermatic P2000, or one of Carbatecs 10 machines. They've got one with a sliding table that looks interesting. Wish there was a shop near by that I could stop in and have a look at.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:11 am

G'day Martin.
I'm using the big Carbatec 3hp Dual-Drum sander MS-25b
It'll take 635mm wide, and twin drums which makes a difference.

I've had nothing but a dream run with this machine, with no adjustment needed out of the crate and easy sandpaper changeover when required.

cheers, Stu

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:39 am

G'day Martin ,

I've owned a Carbatec 16/32 for a few years now with no hassle at all.

I think the model is called WDS-400-P. It's a 1 horsepower unit . I've never managed to bog it down , but I take light passes ,and the rubber belt works perfectly. I've got no complaints at all with it and only cost around 1000 bucks. I'm using the Carbatec replacement sandpaper rolls and a good sized dust extractor

jackspira · Post by **jackspira** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:44 am

Hi Martin, I can second what Stu says about the twin drum machine. I've got the same one I think and I've worked it hard for several years, no problems at all.
I read an article somewhere once by an American maker who used something simililar. He was replacing the rubber feed belt with a belt of 80 grit paper, the idea being it was a harder surface and would be more accurate than the slightly springy rubber.
I've had no trouble with the set up out of the box though. The belt seems plenty hard enough and even enough to get a reasonably accurate result. The second roller has an easy to use adjustment on either end, so tweaking the roller up and down a few thou to get it running level was pretty simple, and its stayed put since then. It does tend to cut spruce soundboards a bit thinner towars the edges by 0.1-0.2mm but that doesn't bother me as I am generally taking at least that off with a final thickness by hand later in the proces.
Jack

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:13 pm

Great input from you guys..thanks alot. I guess the choice has now changed to double drum or single drum machine.

Cheers Martin

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:10 pm

I have the Carbatec 16/32 as well.

Personally, mine needed a fair bit of work to get everything true and square but after a day or so of adjusting things it's run very nicely with almost no adjustments since and gets almost a daily workout.

I do plan on upgrading to a twin drum model in the future, and if I had that extra $1,000 or so to burn I'd have gone that way from the get go, but the 16/32 is fine for what it is.

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:16 pm

Martin, I use the carba-tec version WDS-400. Like others have said it took a while to get it set up but was pretty easy using shims to level the two ends of the drum. If I was doing tops all day i might want a bigger one but it doesn't take long to thickness a top as long as the sanding belt is reasonably good shape. I use a course grit and then finish sand with a random orbit sander to remove marks so i don't change grits.

But has anyone mentioned dust extraction. You want a 1 1/2 - 2hp dust extractor with these things to work effectively.

I also just got a table saw. Like Allen, I didn't want to find that in a few years that i should have got a bigger/better saw. So I got a 12 inch HD cabinet saw from Carba-tec, the MBS300. Very solid, big cast table. Great fence. Now I just have to adapt some of my processes to use the saw. Lots of fun.
Dom

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:34 pm

Dominic wrote: But has anyone mentioned dust extraction. You want a 1 1/2 - 2hp dust extractor with these things to work effectively.

Dom

Good call, Dom.
I should state that with my twin drummy I also run a 2 hp pleated filter extraction unit. It's an absolute must. Pic. is above.

cheers, Stu

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:34 pm

Hey Stu

I got a funny feeling that your Carbatec is a re-badged Trupro.

I was looking at one identical at Woodworking Warehouse with the same serial number

The pic that I posted was from Trupro's Taiwanese website and I think is the new model which is a 5HP twin drum sander whereas the single drum is 3HP.

The only thing that concerned me in the specs was the minimum thickness was 6.5mm. You can easily get around this I guess but I wondered whether you'd ever sanded anything thinner like an acoustic back or top.

Anyway my point is that if it is the new model, there may be some deals going on existing stock.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:41 pm

Table saw : the carba-tec TSC-10HB for $1699 is a corker. I've wanted one for friggin years now, and still plan to get one this year (been saying that for a long bloody time). Same as the grizzly 10" cabinet saw, they're off the same production line and you can use grizzly's downloadable manual which is better than the carbi-tec one. Ducks nuts.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:30 pm

bob wrote:Hey Stu

I got a funny feeling that your Carbatec is a re-badged Trupro.

I was looking at one identical at Woodworking Warehouse with the same serial number

The pic that I posted was from Trupro's Taiwanese website and I think is the new model which is a 5HP twin drum sander whereas the single drum is 3HP.

The only thing that concerned me in the specs was the minimum thickness was 6.5mm. You can easily get around this I guess but I wondered whether you'd ever sanded anything thinner like an acoustic back or top.

Anyway my point is that if it is the new model, there may be some deals going on existing stock.

Yep you're on the money there, Bob.
This machine is rebadged by many other companies, Carbatec and Hare and Forbes to name just two.

As far as minimum thickness sanding goes, I can shoot down to thin veneers by using a flat 16mm mdf board to carry the 'to be thinned goodies' through on. Works a treat and have had good results with it.
The mdf board also keeps the workpiece flatter, instead of the risk of bending/cupping to the shape of the notched rubber feed belt.

I bought this machine last March as I use it for lots of home-made bindings, veneers and the like for solid chambered builds. Not to mention run of the mill sanding/thicknessing.
Although I really got it for acoustic builds which I'm very excited about getting into.

I got this one for $2000 in one of Carbatec's sale. The extraction was around $600 and worth every penny

Paul, that saw looks like an absolute cracker !!!!

cheers, Stu

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:29 am

I have the Hare and Forbes version of the twin drum sander,worked perfectly out of the box. Ignore the 6mm minimum spec,I agree with Jack, it will accurately thickness to any acoustic guitar requirements. Light passes are essential. I also tried the tip I saw on another forum of soaking gummed up belts in water overnight and it works a treat.
Cheers John

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:42 am

G'day John and welcome to the forum.

Thanks for that. I wasn't sure whether that minimum was what it would actually do.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:52 pm

Hey John,

Nice to have you posting, welcome to the ANZLF

I think it was Rick Turner who suggest soaking gummed belts in soapy water? And from memory, he then gives them a blast with a pressure cleaner. Must give it a go. I ran some Bocote thru the 16/32 a little heavy, I now have a near new belt so gummed it's useless.

Won't do that again in a hurry.

Cheers

Kim

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:09 am

Kim, thanks for the welcome. Throw that belt in the laundry tub full of hot water overnight and the gunk should soften enough to come off with a britsle brush, leaving the belt as good as new.
Cheers John

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:04 pm

Soaking belts works a treat. The fellows at the woodworkers guild do it all the time. They continuously recycle the belts through the soak bucket and the drying line.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:24 pm

Chuck it in the washing machine with your wife's knickers and bras and save water.

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