Hard shellac revisited

[kiwigeo]

Has anybody used hard shellac on a recent build?

Im specifically after information on French Polishing with hard shellac. The stuff I believe contains hardeners so my first question is how would I go for finish touch ups after the stuff has cured??

[ozwood]

Hi Martin ,

Used it on the flamenco, first time I have used it , no issues , but I did use industrial metho from carbatec, and Dr ducks axe wax as my oil.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6723

Cheers,

Paul.

[kiwigeo]

Hi Martin ,

Used it on the flamenco, first time I have used it , no issues , but I did use industrial metho from carbatec, and Dr ducks axe wax as my oil.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6723

Cheers,

Paul.

Thanks for the feedback Paul.

I normally use IMS meths for my french polishing. Your choice of lubricants for same is a but unusual....Im currently using walnut oil.

How long were you waiting between bodying sessions?

The question still remains over how one would go with remedial pad work on a hard shellac finish a few years down the track.

[Trevor Gore]

Has anybody used hard shellac on a recent build?

I use it often and there is at least some on everything I build, but not necessarily as a top coat.

...my first question is how would I go for finish touch ups after the stuff has cured??

I've been using it for around 10 years now and I've yet to have a hard shellac guitar back for touch-up. Up to about 30 days you can treat it much like normal shellac. After say, 12 months, damage is going to be ding damage rather than wear-through damage. Wear-though just doesn't seem to happen if you do a decent job in the first place. Repairing ding-type damage depends a lot on the nature of the ding, but I'd be inclined to drop fill, level and buff rather than trying to do a traditional type of work-over with a fad. If I was doing a full re-finish, I'd sand to matt first then use a fad as usual.

[kiwigeo]

Thanks Trevor..very useful information.

Funnily enough at least 4 of my previous builds are doing service with working musicians and I'm constantly surprised at how the FP finish on all these instruments is holding up.

[ozwood]

Hi Martin,

Dr ducks is just a very light Pure oil , Not actual wax used it several times now and it works a treat.

Cheers,

[kiwigeo]

LOL..I reckon Ive tried every sort of oil except crude oil. The walnut oil works best for me and it seems to blend with the shellac better than alot of other oils.

[Craig Bumgarner]

Hard shellac is U-Beaut, yes? I've been using Royal Lac which I gather is a polymerizing shellac for about 9 months now. Is U-Beaut Hard Shellac the same?

[kiwigeo]

Sorry, what is hard shellac?

http://www.ubeaut.com.au/hardshell.htm

[Craig Bumgarner]

Thanks Martin. I figure it out and was in the process of editing when you posted the link. You guys seem to like U-Beaut. I've been using Royal Lac which I gather is similar but have not tried U-Beaut so don't really know. Royal Lac seems pretty good stuff, been using it in the standard French polish method for about 9 months. Certainly durable. Seems harder to get a brilliant finish than with real shellac, but after 30 days can be buffed on a wheel to a very high gloss. I've yet to go through a summer with Royal Lac, but hope it will deal better with high temps, high humidity and lots of perspiration than real shellac which comes apart fairly quickly in these conditions.

Has anyone used both U-Beaut and Royal Lac?

[Craig Bumgarner]

Not that cost is everything, but Royal Lac is half the price of U-Beaut Hard Shellac here in the US. $23 vs. $47.

[Trevor Gore]

LOL..I reckon Ive tried every sort of oil except crude oil. The walnut oil works best for me and it seems to blend with the shellac better than alot of other oils.

I don't use any oil when I FP and I use Shines Hard Shellac rather than U-beaut. Robert Rae of Shines came up with the formulation and licensed it to U-beaut. I buy from Robert direct because he lives relatively close by.

[Craig Bumgarner]

I use it often and there is at least some on everything I build, but not necessarily as a top coat.

Why is that? For me the only real fault with traditional shellac is that high humidity and perspiration seem to tear it up quickly. Royal Lac seems to be more resistant in this regard. I would think, however, if I top coat with traditional shellac over a polymerized shellac, the top coat would be subject to the same moisture, humidity, perspiration problem.

[Trevor Gore]

I use it often and there is at least some on everything I build, but not necessarily as a top coat.

Why is that? For me the only real fault with traditional shellac is that high humidity and perspiration seem to tear it up quickly. Royal Lac seems to be more resistant in this regard. I would think, however, if I top coat with traditional shellac over a polymerized shellac, the top coat would be subject to the same moisture, humidity, perspiration problem.

Soundboards that are finished with nitro have a seal coat of hard shellac.

[Craig Bumgarner]

Oh, I see. Of course. I just assumed that since we were talking shellacs, that you were talking about putting traditional shellac over the U-Beaut. Thanks for straightening me out.

[Craig Bumgarner]

Still interested if anyone has a comparison between U-Beaut and Royal Lac.

[kiwigeo]

LOL..I reckon Ive tried every sort of oil except crude oil. The walnut oil works best for me and it seems to blend with the shellac better than alot of other oils.

I don't use any oil when I FP and I use Shines Hard Shellac rather than U-beaut. Robert Rae of Shines came up with the formulation and licensed it to U-beaut. I buy from Robert direct because he lives relatively close by.

I had a long chat with Robert today....really nice guy and very willing to share valuable advice on shellac and French Polishing. I ended up buying some of his ready made up hard shellac.

For those of you interested in Roberts products PM me for his phone number.

[KLW]

I've used Royal Lac on 3 instruments now and it seems to work well I certainly like it (You can't get uBeaut up here in Canada, or at least I can't find it).. I heard there were problems with ubeaut early on but suppose to be fixed, Royal Lac says it works better, I assume uBeaut would say the same..

I can't get it to work well with a more traditional French polish technique but I have heard several people who say it does work just fine for them so it is probably just me.. Robbie OBrien has some good tutorial up on Royal Lac.. and his technique works very well.. I'm betting it is tough to find down under just like uBeaut is up here.. dangerous good shipping and all that stuff...

Bottom line for me the hard shellac is now my go to finish .. (Nitro way too dangerous for use in my garage)

Kerry

[kiwigeo]

I've used Royal Lac on 3 instruments now and it seems to work well I certainly like it (You can't get uBeaut up here in Canada, or at least I can't find it).. I heard there were problems with ubeaut early on but suppose to be fixed, Royal Lac says it works better, I assume uBeaut would say the same..

Kerry,

Have you tried LMI? http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/ ... rd-shellac

[KLW]

I've used Royal Lac on 3 instruments now and it seems to work well I certainly like it (You can't get uBeaut up here in Canada, or at least I can't find it).. I heard there were problems with ubeaut early on but suppose to be fixed, Royal Lac says it works better, I assume uBeaut would say the same..

Kerry,

Have you tried LMI? http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/ ... rd-shellac

Yep no shipping from USA to Canada due to dangerous goods regs...

Now why I can get Royal Lac shipped to Canada from the USA I don't know?? government regs???????

Kerry