Enough lurking. Time to start building.

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Gregted
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Enough lurking. Time to start building.

Post by Gregted » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:13 pm

Hey all,

Greg here from beautiful Tannum Sands...

Finally decided to start my own build of a strat mainly because many have told me it's too difficult and I shouldn't try it. With a rebel yell.....

So I have seen lots of videos and read lots of blogs and decided to price some ply and pine to practice on. Worked out reasonable but on a whim, I decided to ring the local mill to see how much a slab of local hardwood might compare.

They told me they could cut some spotted gum to 500mm long by 400mm wide and run it through the thicknesser to 45mm for me for $40. Pick it up in a couple of hours.

Sweet I said. I'll be there. I arrived to this little country mill I half expected to be running off steam and they showed me what they had done for me.

Propped up against the post was a slab of very nice spotted gum.
Body slab -20150420.jpg
Body slab -20150420.jpg (85.27 KiB) Viewed 19968 times
I like how the receipt says Approximately 400mm x 500mm x 45mm. It turned out to be 500 wide by 45 thick all right but nearly 1 meter long.

I will get 2 good bodies and maybe another 1 it I can work out how to stabilize the crack running through the middle of the last piece.

So while I was there I thought I would push my luck even further and ask for some cheap hardwood at 25mm thick and at least 100mm wide for a practice piece for a neck. The lovely lady showed me a pile I couldn't step over of 150mm wide x 25mm thick and 2000mm long and said I could have a piece for $5.
Neck slab-20150420.jpg
Neck slab-20150420.jpg (121.65 KiB) Viewed 19968 times
But my luck hadn't run out yet. I got this great find home and decided I would drop into the local hardware store for some mdf to make my templates from. I was just about to pay for my half sheet of cheap ply when I thought I would ask if they had any off cuts or rubbish sheets of ply that would do the job.

In the corner was a pile of 3mm mdf cover sheets and she said I could have one for nothing. Sweet. So I returned some of my good luck and bought a set of scroll blades for my jigsaw from them for $12.

So to recap my day. I now have enough spotted gum hardwood for 3 bodies. a plank of hardwood for 2 necks and a 2 meter sheet of mdf for templates.

I have cut out my templates and sanded them to fit nicely together. I followed the specs from the original vintage 62 fender blueprint I found somewhere on line. I am really happy with my first day.
Mdf templates back side by side-20150420_194707.jpg
Mdf templates back side by side-20150420_194707.jpg (63.13 KiB) Viewed 19968 times
Mdf templates neck toi pocked t fit-20150420_194742.jpg
Mdf templates neck toi pocked t fit-20150420_194742.jpg (60.36 KiB) Viewed 19968 times
I got a bit over zealous with my sanding and I know the pocket is not perfect but I figure I will have a pencil thickness inside the neck pocket and outside the neck so I can sand them both to fit better.

Here is a neck cut out of my 4x1 plank. It turned out to be more spotted gum but a slightly different colour.
Neck cut out-20150421_141517.jpg
Neck cut out-20150421_141517.jpg (112.35 KiB) Viewed 19968 times
I just have to now get my head around the fact that the hardwood I will be practicing on is cheaper than ply or pine. Weird, hey.

Off to bed to dream of strats jumping over my work bench. Like I'm going to get any sleep while I have a strat waiting to be built just in the next room.

Yep. I bought it all inside so it wouldn't get wet. Read .. very understanding wife.. She even helped me with the gluing and cutting out. And it's our anniversary to boot. Gotta love her for that.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

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56nortondomy
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Re: Enough lurking. Time to start building.

Post by 56nortondomy » Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:35 pm

Welcome to the forum Greg. Looks as though you had a good score with all that. You could try some epoxy to stabilise the crack. All i get from my wife is grief.
Wayne

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Re: Enough lurking. Time to start building.

Post by Gregted » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:24 pm

Hey Wayne. Thanks for the welcome.

I tell everyone that the kids get their brains from their mum. I know because I still have mine.

Wife.... Washing, Ironing, Food, Entertainment. Just joking honey... Put down that ash tray....

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Post by Gregted » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:28 pm

I just saw the epoxy idea yesterday. Looks like a plan. The problem is that the epoxy will cost more than another slab. Can't get over the price of this spotted gum up here. Might be too heavy but should ring like a bell. Might even make me sound like a good player.

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Post by simso » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:35 pm

Just a note, the neck pocket appears to fit fairly nicely.

But you really need to run a centreline down the length of the neck and across the body, match these up to make sure they are aligned and then check the alignment against the neck socket and tweak adjust accordingly.

Otherwise you may find the neck is heading of in another direction, and when strings get fitted, not good.

Steve
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Post by Gregted » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:49 pm

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely do that before I finish sanding the final piece of gum. I'm pretty happy with that neck fit as well. Just the gaps in the corners could do with some tweaking. These are just the first attempts at a template. It is only 3mm mdf so might not last too long anyway but it was free and I'm really happy with how it turned out.

I just noticed the edge of the neck is not perfectly flat so might have to make another template. No biggy. I have the original paper template saved and worked out how much to blow it up to get the right measurements so I can print out as many as I want.

I have some 18mm ply for the routing template so I will make sure this is a perfect fit before I touch the spotted gum.

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Post by seeaxe » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:16 pm

Hi Greg, looks like that will make a nice body.

+1 for the centreline idea, that should also help to align your truss rod slot, assuming you are going to put one in the neck.
Also, you could make your fretboard a few mms longer than the neck itself, then it will over hang the join and you wont see it. You will need to check the fit with the pickguard of course.

And depending on the paint/lacquer finish thickness on the neck and the body, you may find your neck pocket is actually a tight fit.

If you ever need another copy, there's a neck template on the Grellier website if you have a plotter or print shop close

Good luck with your build and enjoy the ride!

Cheers
Richard
Richard

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Re: Enough lurking. Time to start building.

Post by demonx » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:36 pm

Welcome to the forum!

Hope you have fun with your build.

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Post by Gregted » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:53 pm

seeaxe wrote:Hi Greg, looks like that will make a nice body.

+1 for the centreline idea, that should also help to align your truss rod slot, assuming you are going to put one in the neck.
Also, you could make your fretboard a few mms longer than the neck itself, then it will over hang the join and you wont see it. You will need to check the fit with the pickguard of course.

And depending on the paint/lacquer finish thickness on the neck and the body, you may find your neck pocket is actually a tight fit.

If you ever need another copy, there's a neck template on the Grellier website if you have a plotter or print shop close

Good luck with your build and enjoy the ride!

Cheers
Richard
I knew it was a good idea to post my build on here to head off any possible problems. I hadn't thought about the thickness of the clear lacquer. And that brings up an interesting question. How do I make the neck and body a good fit and allow for the finish paint.

If I make it a perfect fit now, it will not fit after the finish has been applied. At that point, I will have to sand off my perfect finish to make it fit. If I try and allow for paint, it may be loose. The easiest solution is to not paint the bottom of the neck and the neck pocket but this sounds a bit rough. I understand it would be difficult to allow for all finishes as each application of paint may vary.

What I might do is make it a good fit all through the build and then final sand the bottom of the neck as the finish is applied. Trial and error i guess. Painful to fit, paint, test, sand and repeat. All part of the fun i guess.

I could always make a dummy neck base and neck pocket at the exact dimensions of the original and test these until I get the right allowances.

How to all of you allow for this?

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Post by simso » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:43 pm

I can be only talk about what I do

I fit a neck to the socket so the friction alone allows me to lift the body of the bench with just the neck.

When painting I apply 2 colour or clear coats in the neck socket, and 4 coats usually to the neck.

When assembling I sand the sides of the neck until it's a drop fit in, I follow up with a single coat on the sanded areas and fit glue bolt the neck in place

Steve
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Post by Gregted » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:04 pm

Thanks Steve. That sounds like a plan.

Cut out some routing templates today. Gotta buy a bearing for the shaft of my router bits tomorrow and then I can follow the 3mm mdf templates to tidy up the 18mm ply templates.
Router templates-20150425_191425.jpg
Router templates-20150425_191425.jpg (107.15 KiB) Viewed 19816 times
Hope the router doesn't slip off the 3mm mdf. Could get ugly.

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Post by simso » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:19 pm

We use 6mm for routing templates
Steve
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Post by Gregted » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:37 am

simso wrote:We use 6mm for routing templates
I have read somewhere that It was better to use 18mm for the router templates so I could get the depth of the cavity easier.

I assumed this was to allow many passes at different depths and allow the router bearing to travel down the 18mm. How do you router deeper than 6mm with only 6mm to travel on?

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Post by Gregted » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:26 pm

The light just came on.... :idea:

I realize now that you hog out most of the wood with a forstner bit and then just clean out the rest with the router running on the template. :dru

The idea of the thicker template is to run multiple passes at different depths it you don't hog it out first. :cl

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Post by Gregted » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:05 pm

Time for todays update.

Got used to the router again and found it wasn't too bad.

Routered out some top layers and 1 neck and 1 second layer. The black layer is the second layer.
Top 2 layers-20150427_190108.jpg
Top 2 layers-20150427_190108.jpg (94.86 KiB) Viewed 19699 times
I don't have a template router bit so I had to improvise. I made a 6mm router template and mounted it on the bottom of the ply and then I could follow it with the bit I had with a top bearing. This worked out ok as I haven't glued my ply layers together yet.

The idea is to rout all cavities from the top layer of 17mm ply and then only the control and jack cavity from the second 17mm. Finally, I will add a 10mm layer and router only the tromolo spring cavity from this one. I know this gives me 17mm as the neck and pup cavities but I am hoping the extra 1mm won't be a problem. Time will tell and by then I can add a 1mm shim if needed.

I haven't worked out how to get another 6mm from the bottom of the second layer yet to get the full 16mm needed for the spring cavity. Might have to bite the bullet and buy the proper router bit yet. Still haven't worked out if routing the spring cavity up to the pup level is a bad thing.

To hold the router template on the ply, I used an idea I saw online if you don't have any double sided tape. You put some ordinary masking tape on each piece and put some superglue on the back of the tape and press them together. Holds really well and comes off easy.

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Post by Gregted » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:32 pm

Here is how they look together. It looks like they have been routered to different depths.
Top 2 layers together-20150427_194225.jpg
Top 2 layers together-20150427_194225.jpg (110.04 KiB) Viewed 19696 times
Not an ideal fix by any means. It gives me 17mm for the neck cavity and only 34mm for the control cavity. All this because I'm trying to avoid buying another template following bit at $35. Might buy it yet. We'll see.

Notice the pieces chipped out around the edges. That's the reason my jigsaw nearly went swimming. Not happy, Jan. Might have to redo that layer yet. All a learning curve and better on the ply than the spotted gum.

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Post by Gregted » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:32 pm

Gave in today and bought the proper template bit for the router. Glued up the 3 pieces of ply so I can router them properly tomorrow.
The finished thickness should be close to 45mm. 17+17+12=46.
Made a jig to router the tromolo cavity for the back. Routered the top of the neck and drilled and test fitted the tuners. Looking more like a guitar everyday.
Neck with tuners close up-20150428_181553.jpg
Neck with tuners close up-20150428_181553.jpg (103.33 KiB) Viewed 19661 times
If you look closely you can see where I slipped with the router and dug too deep near the second tuner from the right. Not sure what to do about that yet. The router also chipped out a piece near the far right ( low e ) tuner. That should sand out when I blend the headstock into the nut area.

Making some rookie mistakes but so far nothing major. The 4x1 was rough sawn so the minimal sanding I have done so far has taken it down to 23mm in places. Note to future self... Make sure the neck is slightly larger than 25 or dressed to that thickness.

Still, 23mm of spotted gum should be plenty strong enough. As long as the fretboard is level and radiused properly, all should be good in the end.

May decide to not install a truss rod as the spotted gum is heavy and solid. I can always install one later. Just saw some posts where some pine necks don't have truss rods and haven't bowed.

I might leave the neck fairly thick to start with and I can shape it again later.

Got a few more days off so should be a fair way along by the time I have to go back to work.

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Post by Nick » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:04 am

Gregted wrote:If you look closely you can see where I slipped with the router and dug too deep near the second tuner from the right. Not sure what to do about that yet.
Possibly lay a veneer over the face of your headstock or even take another cut over the face? Removing another half millimeter or so wouldn't compromise the headstock's strength that much. I've worked on commercial 'strat' copies which have had headstocks ranging in thickness from 13-15mm.
Gregted wrote:May decide to not install a truss rod as the spotted gum is heavy and solid.

Cheap insurance in the longrun is to install some form of re-enforcement, it may be heavy and solid but it's not only string pull that makes a neck bow or move, how stable is spotted gum to humidity swings?
Gregted wrote: I can always install one later.
Ummmmm, I would advise against that, it is not that easy to install a truss rod once a neck has been shaped, fretted and finished, especially for a first timer. It's not impossible to do....with care and patience, but it's not something I'd want to do unless I really had to, and I've been building for close to 35 years!
"Jesus Loves You."
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Post by Gregted » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:26 am

Thanks for the advice Nick. The thinnest point at the router ( operator ) stuff-up is 12.87 so might router down to that.

Not sure about the stability of spotted gum against humidity so I will seriously consider your advice.

One of the reasons I wasn't going to install a truss rod in this first guitar is I didn't think it was going to turn out very well but so far it is going great. Might have to take more care and hopefully wind up with a playable instrument. I won't shape the back until I have done everything else so I can install a rod if the rest of it is ok.

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Post by Gregted » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:40 pm

Todays' update.

Routed all cavities and curves. Carved front and back. Primed and trial assembly.
Primed top back-20150429_151323.jpg
Primed top back-20150429_151323.jpg (68.05 KiB) Viewed 19625 times
Primed top front-20150429_151337.jpg
Primed top front-20150429_151337.jpg (67.55 KiB) Viewed 19625 times
Primed bottom front-20150429_151315.jpg
Primed bottom front-20150429_151315.jpg (70.4 KiB) Viewed 19625 times
Primed whole guitar front top-20150429_164506.jpg
Primed whole guitar front top-20150429_164506.jpg (114.99 KiB) Viewed 19625 times
Really happy with the job so far. Learned lots. No1 is not to use crappy free ply. You can see all the chip outs on the front that will take some bog to repair but should look ok when done. The back piece was top grade ply and turned out perfect.

The new template following bit for the router worked out like a dream. Should make the next one much quicker.

Maybe a tele. Already bought the combo bridge/pup and another set of tuners.

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Post by seeaxe » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:28 pm

I think its looking great. You would need to be filling the body wood anyway before you paint it, so whats a bit more filler between friends. And you could leave the ply like that and make it a "grunge" finish.....?? :mrgreen:

Progress is certainly brisk.

I reckon that you will be surprised when you finish it how good it sounds and plays. From what I have read on here most people feel the same way once they have finished the first, so I would do the best you can with what you have and finish it. I wouldnt worry too much about the plywood, what you have saved on that you can spend on better pickups.

For that strat playability the neck gets really thin so I would still recommend you put a truss rod in it though, as if all turns to custard you can salvage it anyway (I have had to do it once or twice :( ). As for installing one later, it would be faster and probably better just to make another neck. Like Nick says, its cheap ($20??) insurance. Your guitar will be worth way more than $20 to you when its done.

Cant wait to see the neck with some finish on it, looks a like a really nice colour.

Cheers
Richard

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Re: Enough lurking. Time to start building.

Post by Gregted » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:17 am

Hi Richard.

Thanks for the reply and positive feedback. I am really happy with the progress. Amazing what a couple days off work, the right tools and 6 months lurking around these forums can achieve.

It really flew when I stopped trying to cut corners using the wrong bit and bought the template following bit.

Now I have all the templates made, the next one should take a day or less to get to this stage. I know i have lots ahead of me with the neck levelling, sawing and fitting and levelling frets and fitting a truss rod and skunk strip but feel I am ready to attack those after my success so far.

I was looking at a very thin dovetail saw at Bunnings the other day and wondering if you have used one of these for a fret saw. It didn't say what the kerf was but was very flimsy so should be very thin. It was also only $19.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/irwin-185mm- ... w_p5710166

Might wait until my frets arrive and do a trial on some scrap. Any advice?

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Post by 56nortondomy » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:27 am

I think that saw will be too thin Greg, and also those blades tend to bend so it'd be hard to get a nice straight cut. Like your router bit, get the right tool you'll be happier in the long run.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fret-Slottin ... 310wt_1362
Get something like this.
Wayne

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Post by seeaxe » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:14 am

You're welcome Greg, good to see more people having a go at it.

As always, get the right tool as otherwise you will just end up doing it twice or more. If the saw in Bunnings is floppy, it wont be any good. One of either Stewmac or LMI quote the kerf (width of cut) of their saws, sold to match the tang on the fretwire. Have a look on their websites. I think the new Stewmac ones use the japanese pull saws - they are about $50 in Carbatec but again well worth the dosh in my opinion. Amazing saws. Watch your fingers! You also need to consider which fretwire you are going to use and make sure your saw matches it OK. I bought some random fret wire once and by the time I had hammered all the frets in there was a huge bow in the board, because the slots were too small for the tangs. Carbatec also sell the same saw as in the LMI jig, complete with holes in the blade for a depth stop

Unfortunately the saw is only part of the job. For fretting this could also mean a few more bits and pieces. If this is the only guitar you are ever going to make then you could consider marking out the frets and cutting them individually - plenty of people do but you need a fair bit of skill to get that dead right. I invested in the LMI fretting jig (Stewmac also do one) and they are not cheap but they do make the job pretty foolproof. I've done heaps of fret boards for all sorts with mine and the saw that came with it just had its first sharpen. Its arguable that fretting is the the most important thing you do on a guitar, most of the rest is adjustable afterwards, especially on an electric. Once the fret slots are cut, that's it. If you get it wrong it will never play in tune and you will not be happy. This sort of thing of course is the root cause of TAS (tool acquisition syndrome) so often referred to on here. If you are already buying bits for the next one, then sounds like you are a goner too like the rest of us. :)

Anyways, If the full jig set up is too much then I suggest finding one of your local friendly ANZLFers in your area and asking one with a fret jig and the right template for a Strat to cut your fret slots board for you or let you use their gear. Maybe do a couple of boards while you are there, if you can keep the spare one flat. Or buy a precut fretboard for your first one. No harm in that.

Cheers
Richard

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Re: Enough lurking. Time to start building.

Post by Gregted » Thu May 14, 2015 9:38 pm

Big day today. Parts arrived and trial fitted. Found out I didn't route the pup cavities deep enough and the jack cavity needed some widening. Of course when I fitted the template to re route the pup cavities, some tape lifted some of the paint near the top horn. My fault for not waiting until I had all the parts before I finished the primer. Won't happen again. I fixed the template and now know when the instructions say pup cavities at 19mm, it is for a reason. Apart from that all fitted ok.
Hardware fitted-20150514_204823.jpg
Hardware fitted-20150514_204823.jpg (97.55 KiB) Viewed 19453 times
Neck fitted also. Lined up dead centre with a piece of cotton as a guide. Still waiting for delivery of fret wire and nut so the neck is not finished.

Also found a source of nice woods for the next build. Picked up some rosewood.
Rosewood plank-20150514_211017.jpg
Rosewood plank-20150514_211017.jpg (94.41 KiB) Viewed 19453 times
They told me they can get many types of wood so might use Jarah for the fret board.
Jarah.gif
Jarah.gif (432.36 KiB) Viewed 19453 times
Also read Make Your Own Electric Guitar by Melvin Hiscock. Interesting stuff.

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