Laser scanning guitar parts

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

Post Reply
simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:34 pm

So I have received a few enquiries from some guys here on the board as to costs associated and what is involved with being able to replicate parts in 3d

I am pretty sure I have mentioned prices and approximate process involved, but thought I would do a tutorial / walk through guide up on how an end result is obtained.

To be able to do this you have to have a pretty good understanding of cad and how lasers work

The whole process will take about a week or two, as I do all the drawing at home

If your interested watch, if your not feel free to ignore
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:50 pm

The first thing is, if you have a duplicator machine, then use this for a straight out copy, they are one of the best things in the world IMO, they allow you to match exactly the shape provided you take your time using them

I have a gemini unit, and highly recommend it to anybody

http://wood-carver.com

you can also make simple versions of these as well if your up to trying, they really are a great tool in the lutherie world IMO
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:53 pm

Nope do not need too, pretty sure I had posted something on this a while back, here is the link again

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5765&p=66415&hilit=laser#p66415

Was going to go through with a neck, from start to machined finish
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

User avatar
Kim
Admin
Posts: 4376
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: South of Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by Kim » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:57 pm

Hey Steve,

Thanks very much for taking the time out to explain your process on the forum...I for one am very much looking forward to seeing how its done. 8)

Cheers

Kim

User avatar
demonx
Blackwood
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Ballarat Victoria
Contact:

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by demonx » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:35 am

Interesting, I'd forgotten all about that older post

A few months back I also did a bit of calling around in regaurds to lazer scanners and decided they're just too damn expensive (as in required five figures fir anything decent) and deciding I'd have to find some place to just scan the parts I want. I forgot completely that there was a forum member offering this service

I might have to hit you up for some scanning services in the next year, although the things I want you'll probably already have on file!

Side topic, I used to own a Marlin, a more expensive version of your Gemini. I rarely used it and sold it to some arch top luthier in QLD. I found the process way too slow and often to just hand carve instead as it was so much faster

User avatar
demonx
Blackwood
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: Ballarat Victoria
Contact:

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by demonx » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:40 am

The only thing I was using it for in the end was cutting angles into neck pockets, but I found an easier and quicker way to do that too so the machine was just sitting there taking up a lot if space (was about a 5ft x 5ft as I had an upgraded (oversized) version
Attachments
image.jpg
image.jpg (109.27 KiB) Viewed 13300 times

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:09 am

Yes the duplicators take up a lot of floor space,
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:27 am

Kim wrote:...I for one am very much looking forward to seeing how its done. 8)
I wont repeat whats on the other post, thought I had posted something, I will simply clarify it up some more with this one

Here I have taken a neck and scanned it in.

The down side of a duplicator is it duplicates only, I dont know a single person to who has wanted an exact copy of something else, they always want it modified slightly, to modify it means to redraw it or alter the design by hand afterwards.
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:30 am

We have a neck to be copied, the customer wants the same profile but shorten slightly to accomodate a bone nut rather than a locking nut

On close inspection it appears symmetrical and clean, couple of flat spots on the rear which could be contributed to player wear

We are copying a peavey neck, this is a generic internet photo
Attachments
peavey.jpg
peavey.jpg (37.66 KiB) Viewed 13280 times
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:33 pm

Quick scan

The laser scanner works, by firing a wide laser beam at the item and then the cameras mounted in each side measure the reflection and correlate that to a distance etc through a program

This creates what is called a point cloud, the item is then strip recorded and re-assembled "stitched" into a singular component as per photos

The first picture shows the two cameras individual views, then the assembled component and a view of being scanned

One issue is, that the items need to be sprayed in a non reflective paint, "which I dont do", so this means you get lots of stray lines dots point clouds
Attachments
laser 2.JPG
laser 2.JPG (134.37 KiB) Viewed 13246 times
laser 5.JPG
laser 5.JPG (151.9 KiB) Viewed 13246 times
laser 3.JPG
laser 3.JPG (205.53 KiB) Viewed 13246 times
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

User avatar
Kim
Admin
Posts: 4376
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: South of Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by Kim » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:25 pm

simso wrote: One issue is, that the items need to be sprayed in a non reflective paint, "which I dont do", so this means you get lots of stray lines dots point clouds
I wonder if wiping over the object to be scanned with a smear of floor wax prior to scanning would help?? If you leave the wax to dry for 5 or 10 min it soon becomes matte, so as long as the laser doesn't cause it to fry, then you could simply buff it off for a nice sheen and charge more for the service.. :D If the waxed 'feel' is an issue for the owner, then a quick wipe down with shellite should have things back as they were..Of course you would need to test the idea first.

Cheers

Kim

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:41 pm

Not a bad idea, the laser is not pursay like a laser cutter, but more like a laser light as emitted by a laser leveller or power tools with laser guidance lights, I have a special spray its a dry chemical powder, but not cheap stuff, it just wipes off afterwards.

Because you really are redrawing the whole thing from scratch and just using the laser scan as a reference, its satisfactory

This is the laser scanned image brought into a rendering program

The sections with holes are where the laser did not reflect properly due to the surface finish, same with the stray lines about, they are where the laser scanner picked up a single or group od dots out in the air, from example stray lines from incorrect finish
Attachments
laser 6.jpg
laser 6.jpg (76.76 KiB) Viewed 13236 times
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:47 pm

The top view drives the laser nuts, because the frets just bounce the light everywhere
Attachments
laser top.jpg
laser top.jpg (71.82 KiB) Viewed 13234 times
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:53 pm

Now I use these scanned files for reference as they are 1:1 scale

I start with drawing the top using just the neck width at the nut and the rear fretboard width, and then I lay down the frets according to the correct scale length being used

I use physical measurements with a set of verniers to achieve this
Attachments
Cad top 1.jpg
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:56 pm

I then super impose the laser scanned image on top of my measured drawing
Attachments
Cad top 2.jpg
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:00 pm

And trace with cad the outline of the head, rear cutout, the exact size and location of the fret markers, the same spot for the locking nut mounting holes and so forth and I end up with an exact copy of the laser scanned image, but instead of a 3d scanned image with lines every where I have a clean vectored file that any computer can utilise, and I can now edit that file / reshape it or modify according to the clients wishes

Total time to draw the top to scale is about 15 minutes, its not really that hard to do

But in this situation the customer wants the locking nut removed and replaced with a bone nut, so I need to shorten the neck on the final run,
Attachments
Cad top 3.jpg
Cad top 3.jpg (29.64 KiB) Viewed 13232 times
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

simso
Blackwood
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Laser scanning guitar parts

Post by simso » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:04 pm

Now that I have a top profile shape, I can flip the drawing over in cad and use it for the rear shape.

I have to take some slices from the rear scan to get my back profile, I usually do a slice through the scanned image at the nut and 12th fret

You can see straight away the rear profile is assymetrical not symmetrical like I thought it was when holding
Attachments
laser 7.jpg
Steve
Master of nothing,

Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 131 guests