which epoxy glue for fingerboard?

[kiwigeo]

Colin my friend you and I seem to remain the few CA haters in guitar building but I consider you to be excellent company!

Add me to the club. I've stopped using it for gap filling.

[Hesh1956]

Matthew my friend this idea of "priming" the joint with HHG is interesting and I am not sure that I understand what you mean. Are you talking about wiping on a thin layer and letting it dry before going at the regular glue joint? What is the benefit - this is interesting?

On another note epoxy is not all that easy to use. You have to mix it, it stinks, you have to mix it correctly, and it is as slimy and has no initial tack like HHG does. It takes longer to cure and has a limited shelf life with no prior warning when you are about to use some old stuff that will make your fret board come off 2 days after you complete the guitar/instrument, deliver it, and cashed the check.......

It has to be applied to both surfaces and for many applications thickened with things like silica which can be dangerous or other substances that are just messy and inconvenient.

Although Mario indicates that he uses any old store bought epoxy I know people who have had the stuff fail or not cure because it was not fresh. These were very well known name brands too.

System III has some cryptic comment on their FAQs site saying that you should have no problem with epoxy up to one year old...... This make me paranoid because many of these products are very difficult to determine how long they have been sitting in a store, warehouse, etc.

Anyway epoxy is no joy to use and if given the choice for ease of use HHG would be my choice.

[matthew]

Well, for absorbant wood eg: end grain it is usual practice to brush on a thin layer and allow to dry. Then glue as normal. This stops the wood grain sucking up too much glue and not leaving enough in the joint.

I find that it works well to prime a surface, allow to dry, and then sand flat with fine grit. If the surfaces fit exactly, as they should, then only a small amount of glue is necessary, and sometimes even just hot water can be used to reactivate the glue. When clamped up, almost ALL the glue should come out of the joint.

On a bass fingerboard it is common to plane a shallow groove up the centre of the board to allow the excess glue to escape, and this helps stop the board skating across the neck, too. As I inlay a 9mm CF rod into the neck, I route a 10mm channel and leave it 1mm below the surface so in fact there's a gap for excess glue to run into.

(note: i do use epoxy for the CF insert, as HHG does not stick well to CF)

[James Mc]

The old guy that got me started used 192 gs hide glue for everything except ftetboards, for this he used carpenters hide glue (about 300 gs i think). He would give the fretboard and neck a good pre-heat then glue and clamp at a frantic pace. He never seemed to have any problem with bowing, he built classicals so didn’t use truss rods but he would inlay a couple of hardwood strips into the top of the neck of full size guitars.

[matthew]

He would give the fretboard and neck a good pre-heat then glue and clamp at a frantic pace.

yep that's what I do. You need to preheat ebony particularly as it is a very "cold" wood and absorbs heat quickly, making the glue go off too fast. Nice thing is, when warmed up it holds the heat quite well too.

[Dave White]

(note: i do use epoxy for the CF insert, as HHG does not stick well to CF)

Matthew,

That's interesting. The cf rods are, I think, coated in an epoxy so this sort of makes sense. I have been using fish glue for the cf rods I use in my necks but still use epoxy for the cf flying buttress braces (I hate this glue up part). You can lightly sand the epoxy on the cf rods and this may make for better adhesion of hhg. I have loads of small cf rod off-cuts so I feel and "glueing experiment" coming on.

[Kim]

but still use epoxy for the cf flying buttress braces

Dave,

If you don't mind me asking, what profile of CF do you use for your flying buttress braces and approximately what length are they?

Cheers

Kim

[jeffhigh]

If you are extensively heating the neck and fingerboard surfaces before using HHG then you are probably driving off enough mosture from the wood that the addition of moisture from the glue has no net effect.
Jeff

[Dave White]

but still use epoxy for the cf flying buttress braces

Dave,

If you don't mind me asking, what profile of CF do you use for your flying buttress braces and approximately what length are they?

Cheers

Kim

Kim,

I use the same ones that I do in my necks - the 0.2" x 1/4" ones from Stew-Mac (I need to buy some from Jim Watt instead). The length will vary with each instrument type as I aim to get them to meet the sides just below the waist curve but they are usually between 5"-7" long. I tend to buy the cf rods in 24" lengths rather than the 18" ones as each rod gives me a long enough off-cut for one flying buttress brace after using it for a neck rod.

[Kim]

Thanks very much Dave, and Jeff that is a very good explanation of why some may have had a different experience than others with HHG.

Cheers all

Kim

[matthew]

Actually the CF rods are made out of epoxy and carbon fibres, the epoxy holding it all together. Hence "composites". Sometimes other plastics are used. So sanding off the outer layer probably won't improve HHG glueing all that much.

I don't heat the FB/neck all that much; just warm it so that it doesn't suck the heat out of the glue.

[Craigsz]

Thanks everyone for discussing the pros and cons of using different glues and methods. At the end of the day I just do not want a repeat of No 1, so am determined to give the epoxy a try. I understand I need to watch the clamping pressure . Is there any special preparation needed for the fingerboard and neck surfaces prior to gluing? Is it worth leaving a strip down the center of the board without glue ? I figure it will squeeze across when clamped anyway ?
Dom no I didn't manage to get any of the figured QLD maple from Monaro Timbers . I am going out to fyswick tomorrow for some West Systems so might call in and have a quick look .

Regards

Craig.

[Craig]

Z-poxy 30 minute resin ( NOT finishing resin ) , has been my choice , and worked out fine.

I have used the L.M.I. / Allied two way rods twice , without a filler strip on each occasion . No problems so far . I ran a 5/8 " strip of masking tape down the middle of the neck whilst applying the resin .

The reason I haven't included the filler strip is so that I can get the neck shaft down to my desired 20 mm. thick @ the nut (.785 "). Without the filler strip I have plenty of meat remaining under the truss rod . If I were to use the filler strip , I would only have 2.5 mm. of wood remaining,,,,,,,,,,,I'd be fairly concerned ,,,,,