Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

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demonx
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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by demonx » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:18 pm

kiwigeo wrote:One negative to bolts in the bridge is the mass it adds to the bridge. I bust my nuts to keep bridge mass as low as possible (walnut sandwiched with CF ala Gore and Gilet) so a couple of bolts would be going backwards for me.
Well, without weighing them it'd be an assumption, but I think it'd be a pretty safe one that because the bolts are such a thin gauge and not made from a heavy steel, I'd assume that they would actually be lighter than the timber removed, then because they are not filling up the entire space of the removed timber as they are recessed and the thin plastic cap would also be much lighter than the timber removed in its position, so I think this bolted bridge would be lighter than if it wasn't bolted! The only way to know for sure would be to weigh a bridge before the holes are drilled, and then re weigh the same bridge after and add the bolts on the scale.

In saying that, if a person wanted to heavily reduce the the weight of a bridge it could be scalloped out on top, or several well orchestrated holes cut through it to create a artistic pattern. I'm not familiar with the text in the book. I'd read on the forum raving reviews about it and went to buy a copy only to see the price. I closed the webpage very quickly.

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:21 pm

demonx wrote:
In saying that, if a person wanted to heavily reduce the the weight of a bridge it could be scalloped out on top, or several well orchestrated holes cut through it to create a artistic pattern.
Mass needs to be minimized but not at the expense of stiffness...hence the use of a walnut/CF sandwich (the CF is there to make the bridge stiff). The mission statement is reduction of mass but maintenance (or increase) in stiffness.
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by scripsit » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:25 pm

It's definitely his standard practice. On the 'Workshop' page of his website there are pictures of a 12 string under construction, and towards the bottom of the page there is a clear picture of the bridge with bolt holes in place.

As a viewer of numerous luthier websites and forums I've never seen another established flat top builder who uses mechanical fastening on a traditional steel string bridge so this is definitely a David Churchill eccentricity.

Kym

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by jeffhigh » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:03 pm

Gibson Acoustics use bolts (ovations too)
It helps when the crappy glue joint lets go
Somehow Martins seem to manage fine without them.

Not implying anything about David Churchill

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by demonx » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:07 pm

jeffhigh wrote:Gibson Acoustics use bolts (ovations too)
It helps when the crappy glue joint lets go
Somehow Martins seem to manage fine without them.
I've heard it's a common repair on old Martins. Resetting the bridge that is.

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:44 pm

Most factory built guitars with glued on bridges would have AR or similar glue holding the bridge on. Such glues are subject to "creep". Hide glue on the other hand has a higher shear strength than modified PVA glues.....the reason I use hide glue on all my bridges.
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by demonx » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:26 pm

jeffhigh wrote: Not implying anything about David Churchill
He uses hide glue as well. I'll be using titebond, but the bolts mean I don't have to worry about it ever failing.

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by ozwood » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:16 am

I'm not familiar with the text in the book. I'd read on the forum raving reviews about it and went to buy a copy only to see the price. I closed the webpage very quickly.

_________________
Best money I ever spent in relation to guitar making, Alan your happy to spend $$$ on Jigs to save time, there is info in those books that will save you many, many hours, a build system worked out by two blokes with a lot of experience and smarts, the books are exceptionally well written and considering the amount of info,photo's and research that has gone into them, I think they are exceptional value, not to mention the generous ongoing "tech" support Trevor provides on this forum.

I also spent extra $$ doing Trevor's course and that was worth every cent as well, in short starting out building acoustics without the knowledge in those books is like working in the dark, it will take you many instruments of trial and error to get your sound sorted.

Mate $200 , you will spend more money than that on a decent back and side set, and only use it once.

I'm sure if you do a quick survey , Most who have coughed for the book do not regret the purchase.

Cheers,
Paul .

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:18 am

demonx wrote: I'm not familiar with the text in the book. I'd read on the forum raving reviews about it and went to buy a copy only to see the price. I closed the webpage very quickly.
$200 for two hard bound books full of information you'd otherwise never get privy to in a life time.....sounds reasonable to me. When you consider printing costs (lots of colour plates) and the fact Trevor and Gerard have to make a bit of profit out of the venture the price isn't unreasonable.

If you're still a sceptic..buy the books and if you don't like them I'll buy them off you......for full price.
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by lauburu » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:36 am

The Books are excellent value for money even though I don't yet use a lot of the technical info.
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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by DarwinStrings » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:45 am

Open that web page again and then click "buy" Allan. Of all the tool you can buy to build a acoustic guitar it is the best one and it would still be cheap at twice the price.
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by DarwinStrings » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:52 am

With those bridge bolts Allan, make sure you glue first and let it dry before you add those bolts. Put a bit of that yellow glue on a bit of steel and you will see why I suggest that. I would also be a bit unsure on how the dry glue reacts with the steel but a couple of rusty bolts in there won't look good once you add a bit of time.
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by demonx » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:56 pm

Fretwork done this arvo. This was the third guitar I fretted this arvo. Pretty much over fretwork for the day.
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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by johnparchem » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:57 pm

demonx wrote:
jeffhigh wrote:Gibson Acoustics use bolts (ovations too)
It helps when the crappy glue joint lets go
Somehow Martins seem to manage fine without them.
I've heard it's a common repair on old Martins. Resetting the bridge that is.
There was a period of time that Martin put the bridges in the wrong spot, they sort of forgot how to make guitars. The common repair was to take them off and move them to get rid of intonation problems.

Your guitar looks great.

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by demonx » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:09 pm

Scandinavian Redwood top with Silky Oak back and sides:

Image

Image

Image

While I'm updating the thread here's a couple other things that are going on in the workshop as well.

The one in the paint process:

This pic shows it covered in z-poxy but I ended out sanding it all back and deciding on spraying this one without grain fill. It's supposed to be a "relic" themed guitar so I decided a sunken look on the paint would suit better. Wish I had have come to that comclusion BEFORE grain filling as it's a real pain to sand off.

Image

Spent some time assembling new shelving, this is the neck blank area with a few bits and pieces thrown in:

Image

Ebony binding on the Maple board looks great with the black Numerals:

Image

Installing truss rods and carbon fiber.

Image


Fretwork - this pic is fresh bevelled and before they get milled and dressed.

Image

More fretwork:

Image

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:18 pm

Ha ha...looks like you've got the acoustic bug...welcome to the dark side!!
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by demonx » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:20 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Ha ha...looks like you've got the acoustic bug...welcome to the dark side!!
I plan to always have an acoustic build going along side the electrics. As soon as one sells I'll start the next. That's the plan anyway, we all know plans change.

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:29 pm

And then after a few months you'll be building electrics alongside the acoustics :mrgreen:
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by curly » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Hmmm , now I better tread carefully here .
This "Scandinavian Redwood " I've seen about from a Melbourne ebayer is leaving me with some serious doubts . What pray tell is Scandinavian Redwood , genus , species ? I'll guarantee those faces are not Pinus sylvestris and it only gets less likely from there !
I'd say proceed with caution Allen , God knows what it is >
Pete

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:06 pm

curly wrote:Hmmm , now I better tread carefully here .
This "Scandinavian Redwood " I've seen about from a Melbourne ebayer is leaving me with some serious doubts . What pray tell is Scandinavian Redwood , genus , species ? I'll guarantee those faces are not Pinus sylvestris and it only gets less likely from there !
I'd say proceed with caution Allen , God knows what it is >
Pete
Yeah I was just going to ask about that top......
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:17 pm

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331532700997

This top described as Californian Redwood in the posting title and then at the bottom of the listing it's described as Scandinavian Redwood. Two totally different species.
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:18 pm

kiwigeo wrote:
demonx wrote: I'm not familiar with the text in the book. I'd read on the forum raving reviews about it and went to buy a copy only to see the price. I closed the webpage very quickly.
$200 for two hard bound books full of information you'd otherwise never get privy to in a life time.....sounds reasonable to me. When you consider printing costs (lots of colour plates) and the fact Trevor and Gerard have to make a bit of profit out of the venture the price isn't unreasonable.

If you're still a sceptic..buy the books and if you don't like them I'll buy them off you......for full price.
Anyone else want to take up my offer???
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by J.F. Custom » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:44 pm

kiwigeo wrote:
kiwigeo wrote:$200 for two hard bound books full of information you'd otherwise never get privy to in a life time.....sounds reasonable to me. When you consider printing costs (lots of colour plates) and the fact Trevor and Gerard have to make a bit of profit out of the venture the price isn't unreasonable.

If you're still a sceptic..buy the books and if you don't like them I'll buy them off you......for full price.
Anyone else want to take up my offer???
Ummm... If I were to buy a new set, do you want to buy my old well worn and tattered set for full price? Cause I wouldn't like them as much as my nice new shiny ones :mrgreen:
curly wrote:I'd say proceed with caution Allen , God knows what it is >
Does she really? :twisted:

Those ebay ads make for interesting reading... Scandinavian Redwood? Yeah, no.

I can say that you've done very well indeed with the Silky however.

Jeremy.

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by kiwigeo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:34 pm

J.F. Custom wrote: Ummm... If I were to buy a new set, do you want to buy my old well worn and tattered set for full price? Cause I wouldn't like them as much as my nice new shiny ones :mrgreen:
Are the old set signed by Trevor and Gerard?
Martin

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Re: Build thread - Blackwood & Bunya Dreadnought

Post by demonx » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:43 pm

kiwigeo wrote:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331532700997

This top described as Californian Redwood in the posting title and then at the bottom of the listing it's described as Scandinavian Redwood. Two totally different species.
That would be an error in his relisting. The seller is a 76yo retiree who has two different types of Redwood from two different sources.

The stuff linked to above (eBay) came from Curly and is listed as Cali Redwood, the set I bought came from a Canberra auction house and the tree was from Qld, that was sold as Scandinavian redwood. I have PM'd Curly the details.

Also Curly has suggested that the back and sides are not Silky Oak as they were sold to me and that they are "Plane Tree". I've got a couple of qld silky oak slabs here and the grain is similar but not identical. I just assumed since there are so many varieties of silky oak that is was another variety as it does have that "look", but after a bit of googling the name "Plane tree" and the genus that Curly provided, I do believe he may be right.

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