Heres a question for you

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:38 am

Okay, youve been dicking around with the dovetail on your 12 string so much you havent noticed that youve shortened the neck so much that the 14th fret now lies about 4.5mm bridge side of the neck/body joint.

As far as I see it the options are thus:

1. make a new neck.
2. make a new fretboard using a slightly shorter scale length. Measuring along the neck with nut in position the new body/neck join is at 358mm from he nut. Using my Excel fret position calculator that makes the new scale length 646mm.
3. Live with the 14th fret not being at the body/neck joint (I think I will end up having nightly dreams about this for the rest of my life).

So which option? Im already favouring optiion 2. Less work than making a new neck.

Cheers Martin

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 am

Depending on where you intended it to go, can you move the nut position up onto the sloping part of the headstock?

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:52 pm

No-one will actually notice a 4mm shorter scale length, will they? That's a fraction of a millimeter difference at fret #1. And still a fraction of a mm between nut and fret #3.

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:14 pm

Option 2 as long as it doesn't shift the bridge position too much. You do want the bridge wings to be sitting over the X braces, especially on a 12 string.

Or just a make a new neck and put the first down to experience

cheers

graham

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:19 pm

I like Jeff's idea if you can relocate the nut to or from the neck flat or angled head stock you can reclaim nearly 1/4". You could also plane the head stock angle for more or less.

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:03 pm

Nothing at all wrong with a 13.75 fret neck. I have a 14.37 fret neck on my favourite sounding guitar. The body is also way deeper than the plans. But is sounds great. If a 12, 13 or 14 fretter is OK, why not a 13.75 fretter?

I can't see how 4.5mm would make much difference as long as the bridge sits on the x/bridge plate in about the right place.

I've said this before, but i don't believe there are any 'should's' in guitar building, only 'could's'.

Now you just gotta learn to dream about how you have a unique 13.75 fret neck guitar and how nice it sounds.
Dom

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:45 pm

My first response was along those lines too, actually.

I don't think a 13.75 fret neck would pose a problem for a player even if they did notice. You'd adjust in the same way you adjust to any other playing challenge, like putting a capo on fret#1 and adjusting to play fret 14 at fret 15!

If the guitar sounds good, that 4.5mm won't make a difference to the price.

Hmmmm ... and then I thought, Nah, there's probably an unwritten holy secret "should" that says the fret MUST line up with the rib. I won't show my ignorance by suggesting that it matters not a bee's fart ...

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:50 pm

Okay moving the nut back isnt an option. the headstock is already veneered and bound. I've pretty much decided to go for a shorter scale length which wont be noticed by anybody but me and anyone with a ruler. Ive already checked out bridge patch position and new bridge location wont be an issue.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Martin

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:51 pm

See if you can shift the nut back into the headstock.

If you can't I'd build a new neck.

Bob

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:47 pm

A new neck is out of the question...there are already 4 necks hanging on my "wall of shame".

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:59 pm

Mahogany necks burn pretty well.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon May 12, 2008 4:43 pm

No..best the wall of shame stays as it is. Every time I look at it Im reminded of the old saying..."measure twice..cut once".

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon May 12, 2008 5:24 pm

In your shoes, I think I would try out #2. It's pretty easy and isn't going to cause heaps of grief.

That adjustable bolt on neck option is starting to look pretty damn good right about now hey Martin.

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Actually Ive got 10 freshly purchased bolt on sets sitting on the bench right now. The way I see it everybody should try at least one dovetail M and T joint even if its just so you get a better idea of how much easier the bolt on option is.

jackspira · Post by **jackspira** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:20 pm

I think option 2 as well. A short scale is not a bad thing for a 12 string I reckon, might break the octave G string a bit less often. 646mm doesn't seem that short to me though...I think of 632mm as short?
Jack

Arnt · Post by **Arnt** » Tue May 13, 2008 7:44 am

646 mm is pretty close to 25,4", so nothing unusual about that.

One option that you didn't mention (and I don't particularly like this method, but I have seen it done some times) is shimming the heel with a contrasting wood, thereby gaining the necessary length to maintain your original scale length.

I actually try to have the 14th (or 12th) fret sit a smidge out form the body joint on the neck side, just so there is a little 'meat' there, as an insurance so the neck fitting process doesn't result in the fret sitting over the body. I have had that happen, and I sure don't like that look...

I would go for option 2.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:25 am

G'day Martin,

I agree with Jack ,in that a shorter scale is a a good thing on a 12 string. With a wider neck ( mine is 1 15/16" @ nut ), and 6 extra strings to deal with , I find a shorter scale quite welcome. less pressure is required to fret a string ,and a shorter reach between frets .I believe you need all the help you can muster for 12 string playability.

Because the neck is shorter , the strings have slightly less leverage too.

As Arnt and Jack also pointed out , 25.4 " (645 mm. ) isn't considered short. My 12 is a 24.9 " scale ( 632.5 mm. ) ,,and a 13 fretter !

Cheers , Craig

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:58 pm

Started French Polishing the body today...two body coats on so far. Pore filling was done using z-poxy finishing resin. Two neat coats of same followed by final coat thinned down 50% with alcohol and then lightly sanded back with 600 grit W and D paper. In the background of first pic can be seen the offending neck...now a special "short scale" neck.

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:24 pm

Oh man is that pretty!!!!! FP is still the prettiest and warmest looking finish IMHO.

Very nicely done M8!

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed May 14, 2008 9:32 pm

The IRW is from a shipment of opp grade wood I got from Allied a couploe of years back.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu May 15, 2008 5:45 am

I really like the binding / purfling treatment that you gave this one Martin. How long has this one been in the works?

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:34 am

Too long.....there are actually two other instruments that have been under construction for alot longer

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