when did western red cedar start to be imported?

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:14 am

Rummaging around in an old friend's old garage, I came across a plank of what looks like some sort of cedar. The plank is a good 16 wide or more and about 5 foot long and 1" thick. It's old and dark, black soot and dusty, but light as can be. It must have been there for a good 40 years. I haven't had a change to plane off the edge yet, but I'm wondering whether WRC was imported back then, or if this was more recent? In which case, the plank could be something else. Rare to find a plank this wide!

MT

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:28 pm

AFAIK, WRC has been imported since the early 1900's along with californian redwood and Douglas fir (oregon)
Our lack of easy working and durable softwoods after the decimation of the Australian cedar forests led to this importation.
So a good chance it is WRC
A lot of WRC was used back in the 60's and 70's for decking around above ground pools too.
A good find.
Jeff

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:45 pm

Most likely to be redwood. That was very common in the early years of last century and often used for making doors and other sorts of architechtural moldings, and often asthe borrom of drawers in cupboards and the like. It often can in big sizes like that. I don't think WRC was used much until well after WW11, not until into the 60s I suspect

cheers

graham

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:50 pm

That's what? california redwood/sequioa? Yes it is too dark for cedar i think and DOES remind me of the redwood architraves and skirtings at our place built in the 20's.

How do I identify this?

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:14 pm

Colour is darker than WRC and it is a little softer, tends to have very tight rings.
I supervised a job in the late 70's (Natural draft cooling tower at Wallerawang Power Station) where we imported large quantities to use as walkways due to it's superior durability in constant hot and wet conditions.
Lovely stuff, If you have ever driven through a redwood forest in california the smell is intoxicating
Jeff

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:14 pm

Sand a bit and see what it smells like

It would have to be either Californian redwood or WRC from your description, and the smell test should give you some idea. Do you get to keep it or just tell your friend what it is?

cheers

graham

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:48 pm

Oh no, I have it in the car, it's mine. Now I need to work out whether I can use it ... or to trade it for something I CAN use.

i'll clean it up and take some pics.

MT

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:24 pm

Western Red cedar will come in colors from very light tan to a very deep chocolate brown, and everything in between, so you cant tell by the color. Grain spacing is no clue either as I've seen it from very coarse to so fine its hard to count the rings.

There is nothing that smells like it though, so that will be your best bet. The Sequoia that I built a top out of looks a lot like WRC, but didn't smell anything like it.

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:16 pm

Well; smooth dark chocolately brown right through. 17" wide and 5'6" tall.

(No, not my new girlfriend ... I'm talking about the timber!)

And no smell. Soft as cedar.

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:06 am

At 17" wide and 1" thick you have 3 one piece archtop guitar soundboards, or if you slice it in half down the middle and then re-saw, it up to 12 bookmatched flat-top guitar soundboards, as long as it is quarter-sawn. A good find!

cheers

graham

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:33 pm

Ed is a nice old guy I know, unfortunately he's got to the stage where he's been taken off to an old folks' home and his WS is being thrown in the skip tomorrow. Luckily I was able to get in there and rescue some tools and stuff, (nothing really stunning; he was a metalworker and all the machinery was in 100 bits)

Oh and some wood.

Here are a few of the spoils:

First two are the suspected redwood. Soft as. No smell. Too dark for cedar i think. grain is at 45 degrees.

Next - dunno yet. But it's killer. Two of these, about 18" across and 30" long and 1/2 thick.

Some nice 1" thick quartered SO

This next i reckon is blackwood; only 4" wide though ... enough for a stunning tailpiece or two.

and some spare glue

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graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:48 pm

Bit hard to tell from the pic, but the first one could be Kauri rather than Redwood. Redwood does tend to have distinctive dark winter growth lines in it.

The second might be Kwila, which is related (I think) to Australian red cedar, but I had a plank a couple of years ago with a similar flame to that. Smells a bit like a combination of AustRC and Mortein.

Even if you can't use them for instrument, it is always good to have a few planks of good, old timber about the house. There will always be a useful project to use them on one day

Here is the back of a Kwila guitar bodied bouzouki I made

cheers

graham

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Thu May 01, 2008 2:27 pm

Not sure about Kauri, it's not the colour I usually associate with Kauri (we have Kauri floorboards here) and it is very soft. The shavings are the closest real colour to the wood. purply brown.

Hey what are the screw holes in the back of the bouzouki for?

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:31 pm

They're not screw holes. Access holes for machine bolts that hold the neck on in a hollow neck block. The neck is made like a strat, with no heel, with threaded inserts which take the machine bolts. A long allen key tightens up the bolts through the holes, which are lined with short lengths of carbonfiber arrow shafts, which are just there to give neat finish to the holes.

cheers

graham

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:23 pm

I've seen brown beech that dark, burning splinter test would give a filament of black ash.

Be nice to know that the second one is, is it hard or soft? I was checking out some cello sets at Orcas Island Tonewoods a while back and noticed they had some great looking redwood on their specials page, looks much that same as the stuff you have.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:39 pm

Difficult from images but western red cedar for the board with shavings, could be Curly Jarrah next (how heavy is it??) and then maybe Flat Sawn Silky Oak and would concur on Blackwood as the last board.

Cheers

Kim

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:42 pm

We got some Redwood out of doors in a house at Colac that was built in the 1920's that looks identical Matthew.

At first glance it could be chocolate coloured WRC but theres no distinctive smell to it.

Bob

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:18 am

number one is just like dark wrc but no smell whatsoever. So I'm thinking redwood, yeah ... or old wrc with no smell!.

yep number three is silky oak alright.

Number two is the mystery. I'm thinking it might even be a niece piece of tas oak, or other eucalypt? It's medium-hard, not really like any maple i've seen, and a yellowish colour - too yellow for tas oak really.

Anyone want any old glue? Nothing wrong with it. I now have a surplus!

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:13 pm

Mathew,

Having rummaged around that factory in Botany in the past Im going to suggest that it is probably basic ordinary gelatine. There was only one process. Probably the only difference is the lack of a steralising process which would make it inedible. I may be wrong, but you may have original Aeroplane Jelly! From the look of the print its probably late 50's.

Edit Great score BTW!

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:49 pm

Gelatine? That's all hide glue is, boyo. basic ordinary gelatine. Nothing added, nothing taken away. Proven to last hundreds of years with no creep

OK here are some more pics of the mystery wood #2

Any more clues?

And here is another bit of wood to ID. This is a piano stool from the same workshop, needs the seat fixing where the hinge has ripped out of the side.

First pic shows the flame:

second pic shows the grain where I have cut away the damage. Cuts beautifully. Could it be brazilian/spanish cedar?

Lastly here is a tabletop. No knots, just a lovely wide piece of fairly dense pine. I'm thinking perhaps Kauri pine?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:22 pm

The last shot looks very much like the slab of Kauri Pine that I've got out in the shed right now. I make my laminated linings out of it.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:59 pm

Yep that looks like Kauri Pine alright, I have a mess table made of the stuff stamped "Townsville", It looks a dead ringer, I would imagine the table came from the army barracks from WW2.

The mystery wood looks a lot like Curly Mahogany to me, particularly the grain in the bare section where the hinges have been removed. If it is, you can clearly understand why the early WA settlers called Jarrah 'Swan River Mahogany' , Jarrah is much heavier than Mahogany, but the curly stuff under a finish looks very similar to what you have there Matthew.

Cheers

Kim

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:18 pm

in the first photo it looks a lot like teak (Tectona grandis) but I have to agree with Kim and lean towards Mahogany when I look at the bit you have cut. Teak is a lot more brittle than mahogany so if you can put a 2mm nail through a small 15mm offcut without it splitting then it isn't likely to be teak.

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:46 pm

The first two pics in my last post are not the same wood as the second two pics.

So .... I'm not sure which one you are suggesting is curly mahogany???

MT

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:01 pm

The piano stool as Curly Mahogany... Spanish cedar has the best cedar smell , I've worked on a 80 year old neck and could still smell it just from cleaning up the dove tail.

I still think the top two photos look like teak.

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when did western red cedar start to be imported?

when did western red cedar start to be imported?

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