Fan Frets

[Graham Long]

Hi All,
Just wondering if there are any of us with experience using fan frets, either building with them or playing instruments with them. I haven't actually played or picked up a guitar with them, but i'm keen to try.
Thought this would make a good discussion topic, hope some others are as interested as I am.

Cheers
Graham

[simso]

Go to Perry's website, Ormsby guitars, he does them all the time.

[Graham Long]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for that - will do.
Graham

[KLW]

I'm just in the process of finishing my first fan fret instrument (a Mandocello not a guitar) so I am far from an expert but I will say planning, planning, planning!! use the on line fret board calculator that lets you print out a copy of the fret board, make sure you have the bracing and the bridge position fully sorted..

I'm just doing the finish on the mandocello so will post the results here when done.

Kerry

[Nick]

Pete (slowlearner) has just completed a 6 string bass with fan frets (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5945), I'm sure he'd be willing to impart some of his experiences to you. Have yet to build a fan fret but cutting the fret slots accurately seems to be the trickiest part.

[slowlearner]

I've had two goes at "multi-scale" instruments (Ralph Novak patented the term 'fanned fret' apparently). The idea is to get more even string tension across the strings and have angles that are more suited to the shape of your hand as you move up and down the board.

The first one was this fretless bass...

34"-31" from the Low E to the G string and it had a D extention on the E string too. It sounded awesome, but the fanned frets markers made it nearly impossible to stay in tune. Keep in mind I've been playing upright bass and fretless for over 2 decades now. It was an experiment. A friend of mine now owns it. I dunno if he plays it much but it's probably bang up for having some frets installed.

The second one was the bass Nick just mention...

It's a lot more of a success. It's 33" to 31" from the low B to the high C string. The reason I did this is, I've build 2 32" scale basses recently and they're great. I knew that 32" would be stretching it for a good B string so multi-scaling was a good compromise. It's worked out well.

The process for measure out is a little more complex than your regular build. Goes like this...
1. Decide on the scale for the top and bottom strings and get fret measurements.


2. Mark out the string position for the top and bottom strings on the fingerboard.
3. Decide which fret you want to be straight across. I chose fret No.9 on the latest one. Then measure back and get your nut position.
4. Mark the fret positions for the bottom string along the string. (And double check)
5. Mark the fret positions for the top string along the string. (And double check)
6. Use a rule to create a line between the two sets of position marks one fret position at a time.


From here on in it's the same as a regular fretjob. Just cut your fret slots along the line and voila!


Hope that helps.

As far as playing goes, I've found you get used to it in the lower positions in an hour or two. I'm still working on the upper parts of the fingerboard, but then I've never owned a 6 string bass before.

[Graham Long]

Hi Pete,
Thanks for the great explanation, it will help a lot.

I'll have to start planning the first one, bridge location and bracing, etc.

I have made jigs for cutting conventional fret slots on a table saw, I'll have to figure out how to apply this to a multi-scale length fret board.

Thanks again
Cheers
Graham

[slowlearner]

I have made jigs for cutting conventional fret slots on a table saw, I'll have to figure out how to apply this to a multi-scale length fret board.

I'd suggest, given it's your first one, that you cut the slots by hand to start with. I say this because the marking out process is pretty laborious and time consuming. Adding a table saw to the equation will make it that much harder I reckon.

[J.F. Custom]

Hi Graham.

Been away for a couple of months so just picking up on this thread now.

I was commissioned to do an article on "how to build a guitar" by Australian Wood Review, some years ago. The design scope of it was somewhat negotiable so I opted to make and write about something a little different to those you find in the most common building books.

I made the project a 7 string Multiscale (fanned fret) Solid Body guitar. It ran over three consecutive editions of their publication, though I can't recall which edition numbers they were! Anyway, you could always look up back issues or check your library if interested in the 'how to'.

Otherwise, I thought you might be interested in these old threads - the first being a simple jig I came up with to cut fanned frets; the second being the resulting guitar.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2094

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2394

Multiscale instruments are more fiddly/time consuming to slot the fretboards for, given you can't use regular jigs; unless of course you have access to a CNC. There are also other considerations such as the lack of bridge options available and to a lesser extent, the pickups - all this relating to electric builds here; not such an issue on acoustics, just very careful designing. The bridge base on mine I custom designed as an extension of the 'fanning', then had machined from brass and black chrome plated. The pickups likewise were custom designed, then machined and hand wound.

Many musicians find them comfortable to play with only a short adjustment period to the change. The fanning does somewhat follow your hands natural tendency to curve up and down the neck. However, this depends on the amount/extremity of the scale variation and is, of course, a personal preference after all.

Pete's notes above on how to draw up the fanned frets are helpful. There was an online fret position plotter that included options for multiscale instruments, but I can't recall which one it was. If I find it again, I'll post a link. Only other advice would be to not go too extreme on your variation in scale length and choose your 'straight' fret wisely - where you place this will dictate the type of angle you'll get at the nut and bridge.

Anyway, hope some of that helps. Good luck if you give it a go.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

[Graham Long]

Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for the reply, Great Stuff, Just what i've been looking for.
Your cutting jig looks great, very professional and the seven string guitar - wow just stunning.

I have started drawing up the fret arrangement and will follow your advice on the scale length variation and positioning of the straight fret.

My initial thoughts were to pick suitable scales lengths for Bass and Treble, keeping around the standard scale lengths for acoustic, with straight fret at the seventh. then check how that looks at the bridge end and make adjustments to suit.

Thanks again for your help, I'll let you know how I go, hopefully with some pictures.
Cheers
Graham

[Graham Long]

Found this Fret Board calculator, looks pretty good, seems to work OK.
Has anyone used it?

http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/

Cheers
Graham

[kiwigeo]

Rehasing an old thread here.

Ive printed out a PDF generated by the fretfind2D utility and the first thing I notice is the physical measurements on the plot dont match the nut to fret measurements in the tab listing....difference of at least 2mm.

Has anyone else had similar issues? Im using Adobe reader which doesn't appear to have the facility to change scaling etc?

[Nick]

Rehasing an old thread here.

Ive printed out a PDF generated by the fretfind2D utility and the first thing I notice is the physical measurements on the plot dont match the nut to fret measurements in the tab listing....difference of at least 2mm.

Has anyone else had similar issues? Im using Adobe reader which doesn't appear to have the facility to change scaling etc?

My first port of call would be to check that when you go to 'print' that the setting in there is at full size or 100%.

[jeffhigh]

Printer accuracy (in absolute rather than relative terms) can be a problem, just adjust your input scale length till the nut to 12th fret gives you the right measurement for the original scale and that will work fine.

[kiwigeo]

Rehasing an old thread here.

Ive printed out a PDF generated by the fretfind2D utility and the first thing I notice is the physical measurements on the plot dont match the nut to fret measurements in the tab listing....difference of at least 2mm.

Has anyone else had similar issues? Im using Adobe reader which doesn't appear to have the facility to change scaling etc?

My first port of call would be to check that when you go to 'print' that the setting in there is at full size or 100%.

Its 100%.

F***ed around with different settings last night but gave up and drank half a bottle of red instead

[jeffhigh]

[

F***ed around with different settings last night but gave up and drank half a bottle of red instead

What a brilliant idea

[Jason Rodgers]

The first one was this fretless bass...
34"-31" from the Low E to the G string and it had a D extention on the E string too. It sounded awesome, but the fanned frets markers made it nearly impossible to stay in tune. Keep in mind I've been playing upright bass and fretless for over 2 decades now. It was an experiment. A friend of mine now owns it. I dunno if he plays it much but it's probably bang up for having some frets installed.

Hmm, I'm in the process of building a 5-string fretless for a friend with a 34"-35" multi-scale, perpendicular fret at the 12th. That's not a whole lot of difference - not much angle in any playing position - and hoped that it wouldn't be a problem for fingering. I talked with Harry Fleishman, who has built a few fretless multi-scale basses with varying differences in scales, and he said that folks can adapt.

In terms of general playability of multi-scale guitars, I built a 7-string electric, with a 25.5"-27" scale splay, perpendicular fret at the 7th, low A on the 7th string. If anything, in the first minutes of playing it, it wasn't the frets that threw me off, but that 7th string!

7-string-reduced.jpg (34.41 KiB) Viewed 16372 times

[lauburu]

I use a free program called FretCalc available from http://www.gedgreen.co.uk/?page_id=186.
It allows you to calibrate the printer and also prints a line you can measure to verify you've got the calibration right.
Great value for money
Miguel