Cutting Frets without Template? - Ukulele & Mandolin

[Kim Strode]

I'm embarking on two new instruments…a Concert Ukulele (Plans courtesy Allen McFarlen) and Flat Top Mandolin (Graham McDonald Plans).

As these may be one-off instruments I'm not sure the high cost of a Fret Scale Ruler or Fret Template is warranted? Am I unwise to attempt fret cutting without these rulers and what advice would you offer on the best method of accurately cutting the fret slots. Thought about printing out a template using FretFind 2D http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/and sticking this onto the fretboard, but I'm not able to get the program to save to disc. The alternative is to draw a scaled fretboard using layout software? Any ideas or thoughts on the best approach!

[kiwigeo]

Kim,

I calculate fret positions on a spreadsheet and then manually mark them out on the fretboard (measuring each fret from front of nut). I mark with nick on the fretboard and then scour a line with a sharp violin knife. I then rub white chalk into the ine to make it visible. I then cut manualy using an LMI jig and fretsaw. Works for me.

All my instruments have been fret slotted using above method.

[Kev3]

Same as Martin,
Although I hadn't thought of the chalk bit, will add that to the mix on the next one (thanks Martin )

[martintaylor]

I have created a fretscale that I printed out at Officeworks and then stuck that to the fretboard I was making for a Tenor guitar. It was really easy. I just checked the printout full length against what it was supposed to be from my file to make sure the printing didn't scale incorrectly. I used the Stewmac fret slotting Mitre box and everything went well.

[jeffhigh]

wfret works well and will print straight to your printer. you do need to calibrate it by adjusting the input scale length till the print matches half desired scale length at the 12th.
Seems to be a bit hard to find it to download ATM but if you are a mimf member it is in the library

I used to use gluestick to stick the paper template to the board.
It's better with templates but for a one off, i'd still do it that way

[Bob Connor]

I've got a Stewmac mando template if you want to borrow it Kim (the stainless ones). It has a banjo template on the other side which can be adapted for a Tenor uke so it may be possible to use it for a concert.

If you've got the fingerboard material bring it down and we can cut some on the table saw in a matter of a few minutes.

Regards

[Allen]

If you have any of the guitar templates that you've used previously for either a mitre box or table saw, you can easily pick out a section of them that will give you close to the scale length you require. The scale length doesn't have to be spot on to say 15". It could be 14 7'8" or 15 1/4".

I believe it's the Gibsons guitar template that Chuck Moore has been using for his ukes for years now in just that manner.

[Kim Strode]

Thank you to all for your helpful ideas:
- Your method are very reassuring Martin, can measure from nut as suggested, using scalpel to draw line and the chalk idea is a brilliant way to assist with the close-up work.
- Unfortunately FretScale is Windows based software Jeff, and I use Mac.
- I've already drawn the fretboard on to a layout program Martin T and attaching printout to fretboard was my first idea.
- Have checked all my cutting templates Allen and unfortunately none of mine are close.
- Thanks for your kind offer Bob, will PM re visit and bring Weissenborn at same time.

All your advice is much appreciated.

[Dennis Leahy]

I fretted a few fingerboards correctly without a template, and a couple incorrectly. Perhaps the chalk dust in a razor line scored would have prevented my errors. I used a "4H" (hard lead) pencil, sharpened to a fine point, and made a teeny-tiny dot on the wood, at each fret location. The mistakes happened when I mistook something for a dot, and cut there. My successes (learning from my mistakes) came about after I made each dot then drew a circle around it - making each dot more obvious.

I'm curious as to what the fret scales are that you plan to use. I does seem like the smaller the instrument, the more likely a guitar template would get pretty close (the LMI templates have about 30 fret notches cut into the templates, if I remember correctly.) But, it also may be true that "pretty close" is too far away to use an existing set of plans set up for a different scale length.

Dennis

[Kim Strode]

Thanks for your thoughts Dennis, following Allen's suggestion I compared my two templates (Martin 24.9" and 25.34" scales & Classical guitar 650mm and 660mm scales) with the fretboard plans of both instruments, neither of the templates matched or were close to the fret lines.

[peter.coombe]

I also have a mandolin template that can do 13 & 3/4 inch or 13 & 7/8 inch mandolin fretboards. I have done many. Send me the fretboard blank and it will take less than 3 minutes.

[GregL]

Hi Kim,

If you have a look at the FretCalculator on the StewMac website (http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Frettin ... tcalc.html) you'll see that the Martin 25.34" template you already have is very close to a Concert uke scale (15") - you start measuring at fret position 10-11 on the template ie fret 10 on the 25.34" template corresponds to fret 0 (ie nut) on a Concert uke scale - within 0.1mm - which should be "close enough".

Thanks,
GregL.

[Allen]

I just put my 15" or 381mm concert scale up against the 25.34" Martin scale and while not perfect fit, it's so bloody close I would use it in a heart beat. Starting on the 10th slot, so technically the 9th fret of the Martin Scale as your nut position, the scale length ends up being 382.708mm long.

So just 1.7mm longer than the 15" or 381 standard concert scale length overall. Nothing says it has to be spot on. Just reposition your bridge patch, braces, saddle accordingly.

[GregL]

Hi Kim,

Oops! I was wrong, I think Allen is correct - nut should be at Martin 25.34" template fret 9 (not 10 as I said) - I misread the StewMac fret calculator. Either way, the moral of the story is get ideas from the forum, but check the numbers for yourself!

Thanks,
GregL.

[Kim Strode]

Thanks Greg L & Allen for your feedback….I'm not a musician and am now very confused!

Sorry for asking further questions, but the Plans Allen sent me for a Concert Ukulele indicate fret spacing for 14.750 (375mm) Concert Ukulele, so I created a drawing following Stewmacs fret scale for 14.750. I just compared the 25.34" Martin scale to the plan Allen sent and I can't make it match at all? In the words of 'Pauline Hanson'…please explain?

[GregL]

Hi Kim,

Ah! 14.75" scalelength?! My solution was based on what I thought was the standard Concert scalelength of 15". That's OK, your Martin 24.9" template can be used instead, still using template fret 9 as the nut position for your Concert uke. Using the StewMac FretCalculator, first with a fret scale of 14.75" (your Concert uke), note that the distance from fret-to-fret (3rd column) is 0.828" (nut-1), then plug a fret scale of 24.9" into the FretCalculator and you see that the fret-to-fret distance at (9-10) is 0.831" - near as damn it.

Thanks,
GregL.

[Dennis Leahy]

Using a 25.34 scale,
starting from the 10th fret would yield a 15.103" scale (.353" too long for a 14.75" scale, but mighty close to the 15.0" concert scale)
starting from the 11th fret would yield a 14.222" scale (.528" too short for a 14.75" scale)

but, using the Martin 24.9" scale you have, and starting on the 10th fret, yields a scale length of 14.806" (.056 from your ideal 14.75" scale.) Should be a winner.

Oh, GregL is much faster than me...

:~)

Dennis

[Kim Strode]

Thank's Greg L and Dennis.

Hypothetically, if I wanted to make a Concert Ukulele to a 15" scale (using my existing plans), could I increase the neck and fretboard length by a 1/4", ensuring the 12th fret is at the body and then move the bridge and saddle if required?

[Allen]

Short answer is yes Kim.

You can make the scale length anything you want. And have it join the body at whatever fret you want as well.

The trick to customising those parameters is to get the bridge in the "sweet spot" of the lower bout.

So for example, I get a client that really wants to have a concert 15" scale length on a soprano body. If I joined it at the 12th fret, then it would put the bridge too far towards the tail block. However if I joined the neck at the 14th fret it moves the bridge back towards the sound hole and into the centre of the lower bout. That's because the scale length is constant and everything gets moved. If you have trouble visualising that, just take your fret scale length (the entire length and can just be a stick or what not) with the fret positions marked on it to show you the 12th and 14th fret or any others you might want as well. Then position it over your plan and see where the body join and saddle will sit with various options. If I recall the plans I sent you, they might have both a 12 and 14 fret version on the same plan. Same thing I'm trying to describe.

My suggestion is to either go with Denis' explanation of using the 24.9 scale template, or with the one Greg and I offered. If you go with the 15" option, just sketch out on some paper the soundboard and scale relationships.

I have to do this all the time as I'm constantly asked to build something out of the norm. I have these sketches for Baritones with 19", 20" 21" 22" and 23" scale lengths. All on the same body.

If you are still having trouble, just ask. I'm sure that there are plenty of others reading this that might be struggling to see the relationships as well.

[Taffy Evans]

Hi all, this is what I have used since I bought it back in the early 1970’s. It was printed on a sheet of paper, so to maintain its accuracy I carefully transferred it to this aluminium sheet.

Somebody else worked it out so I don’t know what the measurements mean just that it works for me. I've used it for all instruments even Dulcimers.

There is a base line and at the right side is a mark that is the saddle position,
61cm to the left of the saddle position along the base line is the last “fret” marking vertical line.

I get a length of aluminium strip and mark the saddle and nut positions.
Then lay the strip on the plan with the saddle position on its mark, then knowing how many frets I need I move the strip until it sits on the vertical line that suits the scale length needed, I then carefully transfer the markings to the strip, then put the nicks in the strip to transfer to the fingerboard.

I’m sure there clever people out there that can work out the measurement involved, I cant.

1-IMGP5314.JPG (107.32 KiB) Viewed 27460 times

3-IMGP5315.JPG (102.61 KiB) Viewed 27460 times

2-IMGP5317.JPG (103.5 KiB) Viewed 27460 times

[sebastiaan56]

I just use the fret placement calculator on the Stewmac site, print it out and stick it on the fretboard with spray on rubber glue. Really simple and accurate.

[slowlearner]

I'm embarking on two new instruments…a Concert Ukulele (Plans courtesy Allen McFarlen) and Flat Top Mandolin (Graham McDonald Plans).

As these may be one-off instruments I'm not sure the high cost of a Fret Scale Ruler or Fret Template is warranted? Am I unwise to attempt fret cutting without these rulers and what advice would you offer on the best method of accurately cutting the fret slots.

Can't comment on Ukes and Mandos, but I've built a few basses now with just a ruler, square and a fretsaw. I printed out the measurements from Stewmac and marked it in pencil then cut the slots leaning up against a piece of rosewood (for extra good tone ).

You just have to make sure to mark it out from the nut, then measure fret to fret afterwards to check it. Fanned frets are a bit more complex, but my intonation has worked out ok on everything I've built.

[Taffy Evans]

I've got the same ruler but cant find .289mm on it.

[slowlearner]

I've got the same ruler but cant find .289mm on it.

When you find it, can you show me where it is too?

[simso]

The alternative is to draw a scaled fretboard using layout software? Any ideas or thoughts on the best approach!

Would an mdf fretboard marked out help, I can knock one out on the laser tomorrow, or is that a stewmac jig your using, if so what size is the notch and I'll cut an mdf board with the notches to locate, I don't know if this will work as the board is mdf

Pm me details if you want and I will have it mailed tomorrow

Steve