A better way?
- DarwinStrings
- Blackwood
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A better way?
Last night I scribed a bridge to a top and then scraped out the top finish to glue the bridge. Every time I do this I wonder if there is a better way. Maybe I am just a bit slow at it but it does take me quite some time cause I have to be so careful not to slip and then have to repair the finish. This time while I was scraping I considered masking off the area and using paint stripper to soften the finish before scraping to speed things up (might be showing my desperation there ). I don't want to try that on a guitar in case it stuffs the glue joint so I may spray up some test panels and try it on that first but before I go to the trouble, has anyone ever come up with a faster method with suitable results?
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: A better way?
I think youll find paint stripper will leave a goey gunge which youll end up having to scrape off to end up with a clean gluing surface.
I mask off all except the out periphery of the bridge area..that way I just have to do a bit of scraping..doesnt take me more than half an hour to get the job done. I wear a pair of magnifying binocular glasses and make sure Ive got both hands guiding the scalpelt/violin knife when I get close to the bridge line.
I mask off all except the out periphery of the bridge area..that way I just have to do a bit of scraping..doesnt take me more than half an hour to get the job done. I wear a pair of magnifying binocular glasses and make sure Ive got both hands guiding the scalpelt/violin knife when I get close to the bridge line.
Martin
- DarwinStrings
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Re: A better way?
1/2 an hour beats me Martin, I am about three times that. I suppose masking off would make me less scared and speed it up a bit.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
- DarwinStrings
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
Oh and you use a violin knife, the one with a handle that looks like a skew chisel? That may be better as I just use a broken stanley knife blade. It wrecks my fingers too, can't play guitar after I scraped the finish.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: A better way?
Hi Jim,
I think Kathy Matsushita uses paint stripper when removing finish for the bridge. Maybe you could check her website?
Thanks,
GregL.
I think Kathy Matsushita uses paint stripper when removing finish for the bridge. Maybe you could check her website?
Thanks,
GregL.
- DarwinStrings
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
Cheers Greg, I found it on her site. Kathy refers to the stripper she uses as "orange safe" so I checked that and found there is citris strippers available, sounds like it will save me a not so fun job.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: A better way?
Hi Jim ,
Do you glue down your bridges with HHG ? I'm thinking if it would be possible to scribe your bridge position before any finish is put down ,then brush coat within the scribe line with thick HHG, let it dry , finish the top.
Then put bridge back on and re scribe the line to just cut through the finish , after that either scrape through finish to the glue and dissolve the glue back with warm water or warm up the glue with a hair dryer and see if it and the finish moves . I suppose it could be done with other water soluble glues as well
To me , with scraping the finish under the bridge position I have always thought of the danger of damaging finish out side the line and also of creating a less than perfect joining surface, if I was to scrape at any of the sanded top timber.
Do you glue down your bridges with HHG ? I'm thinking if it would be possible to scribe your bridge position before any finish is put down ,then brush coat within the scribe line with thick HHG, let it dry , finish the top.
Then put bridge back on and re scribe the line to just cut through the finish , after that either scrape through finish to the glue and dissolve the glue back with warm water or warm up the glue with a hair dryer and see if it and the finish moves . I suppose it could be done with other water soluble glues as well
To me , with scraping the finish under the bridge position I have always thought of the danger of damaging finish out side the line and also of creating a less than perfect joining surface, if I was to scrape at any of the sanded top timber.
- DarwinStrings
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
G'day and thanks Rob, I use yellow glue for the bridge and am happy to stick with that. I don't have any trouble with scraping the joint well, once I get through the finish, it is just the getting through the finish that I find time consuming and wearing on my fingers. Still your ideas sound sound enough.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: A better way?
Some use a laminate trimmer with cutter just scoring through the lacquer and cleaning it up that way. I tried it once, but my bum was puckered up too tight for me to continue on with that method.
Others I've heard heat up a knife and use it to scrape up the finish. Not tried it, but I think it was Chuck Moore among others that uses this method.
Me, I've masked off the surface, and then sprayed and buffed. Then pulled tape off. Now I just finish the whole instrument and scrape it back. I mask the entire outside perimiter of the bridge area with tape to give me a bit of confidence in hooking in with a scraper. Takes me about 10 and no more than 15 minutes on my rather complicated footprint on my bridges.
Others I've heard heat up a knife and use it to scrape up the finish. Not tried it, but I think it was Chuck Moore among others that uses this method.
Me, I've masked off the surface, and then sprayed and buffed. Then pulled tape off. Now I just finish the whole instrument and scrape it back. I mask the entire outside perimiter of the bridge area with tape to give me a bit of confidence in hooking in with a scraper. Takes me about 10 and no more than 15 minutes on my rather complicated footprint on my bridges.
Re: A better way?
Allen wrote: I tried it once, but my bum was puckered up too tight for me to continue on with that method.
Martin
Re: A better way?
That's the one.....Ive got a set of the things and I keep them razor sharp. Theyre good for "hogging out" finish and when I get close to the bridge perimeter I sometimes switch to a scalpel with a stiff blade.DarwinStrings wrote:Oh and you use a violin knife, the one with a handle that looks like a skew chisel? That may be better as I just use a broken stanley knife blade. It wrecks my fingers too, can't play guitar after I scraped the finish.
Jim
Martin
- Trevor Gore
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
Scribe around, really sharp dog-legged chisel used across the grain, ~15 minutes all up. (Figs 20-23 to 20-25).
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
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- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
I use the riskier technique Allen refers to using a dremel mounted in the small dremel base, then finish off with stanley knife blade. I do the same in the head block area before gluing fingerboard extension down. Depth testing obviously crucial and dremel has a tendency to walk as the bit is barely touching the surface - so, yeah, all a bit risky but no disasters yet and pretty quick. Frank
- DarwinStrings
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
Thanks all, that made me chuckle too Allen. I should open that white book of yours more often Trevor. I think I am probably just being too ginger with it and sounds like I need to man up get rid of the stanley blade and scrape a little harder or yep buy one of those dogs leg jobs. I had read about that method Frank, thought I might go too slow and burn the thing.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
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Onlineozziebluesman
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
Can't add much Jim I mask off the area under the bridge footrpint mark with a pencil around the outline then use a violin makers knife in a home made handle (one of my first ever projects) and scribe about 2 mm inside the pencil line. Peel away excess and scrape and sand away. I use a French Polish finish and HHG on the bridge glue up.
Cheers
Alan
Cheers
Alan
"Play to express, not to impress"
Alan Hamley
http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/
Alan Hamley
http://www.hamleyfineguitars.com/
Re: A better way?
It takes me too long as well Jim . Have a try at turning the sharp edge on a smooth bit of hardened steel creating a hook on whatever your using to scrape off the finish.
Don't put masking tape on a recently French polished finish !! or you'll end up very pissed off ?
Don't put masking tape on a recently French polished finish !! or you'll end up very pissed off ?
Craig Lawrence
- DarwinStrings
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Re: A better way?
Cheers Alan, Craig. Comforting to know I may not be the slowest kid on the block Craig. Time to improve/change the method so I am looking forward to that bit on the next guitar now.
Jim
Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
Re: A better way?
Hi Gents,
Maybe I am missing something or about embarrass my self , But I just put a layer of tape down accross where the bridge is going to sit, position the bridge , score around it with a sharp exacto knife , remove the waste masking tape , spray , level sand and polish to my hearts content and then score around the edge of the tape,remove it and glue my bridge on,........... never a problem, and I know I'm not the only one who does it that way, if there is an obvious down side to doing it , it's not obvious to me !
Just my two bobs worths.
Cheers,
Maybe I am missing something or about embarrass my self , But I just put a layer of tape down accross where the bridge is going to sit, position the bridge , score around it with a sharp exacto knife , remove the waste masking tape , spray , level sand and polish to my hearts content and then score around the edge of the tape,remove it and glue my bridge on,........... never a problem, and I know I'm not the only one who does it that way, if there is an obvious down side to doing it , it's not obvious to me !
Just my two bobs worths.
Cheers,
Paul .
Re: A better way?
Nope..........That'll never work.............
Re: A better way?
Too simple you thinks Allen, not in keeping with complex and sacred traditions of Lutherie........aww shit , I'm not gonna be cast out am I.... .Nope..........That'll never work.............
Paul .
Re: A better way?
One small step from being banned!
- DarwinStrings
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
I have to agree, far too easy Paul, keep your ideas to yourself next time.
Jim
Someone ban him so I can use it without him knowing please.
Jim
Someone ban him so I can use it without him knowing please.
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield
Jim Schofield
- charangohabsburg
- Blackwood
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Re: A better way?
Wow, the last secret in luthierie has surfaced.
From now on luthiers will be just normal people like plumbers, professors and pedestrians are.
From now on luthiers will be just normal people like plumbers, professors and pedestrians are.
Markus
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
To be stupid is like to be dead. Oneself will not be aware of it.
It's only the others who suffer.
Re: A better way?
+1 for Ozwood
Guess I'll have to ban myself as well
Miguel
Guess I'll have to ban myself as well
Miguel
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