Melbourne Guitar Makers Festival

[lauburu]

I just like making sawdust. When I try my hand at building guitar shaped objects I get to make very expensive sawdust and have a helluva lot of fun.
The results generally draw positive comments from friends and family but I always know I can make the next one better.
I don't aspire to be a Master Luthier and would feel uncomfortable being called one. I do aspire to make each instrument better than the last.
I get the feeling that that's what drives most of the ANZLF members and that's why I keep coming back.
Miguel

[Nick]

I will clarify what I meant by McLuthiers though. If you get on some of the bigger, international forums it seems that every kid who owns a jigsaw and a router and has build half a guitar is trying to take on customers and start a business.

I get what you are meaning Allan....up to a point, even if the Jigsaw & router kids set themselves up claiming to be a guitar making 'business' the quality of their work will determine whether they are or not. The guy that's only got one build under his belt will soon come unstuck when building for somebody else's cash, however, if they have natural talent then they may just pull it off. The Jigsaw & Router kids will either learn from the school of hard knocks and improve (as we all do) with each build if they are really determined to make guitars, or they will decide that it's much harder than they thought and the money's not going to be rolling in & give up.
I've seen some people's work that claim to have been making guitars for years and I still see mistakes and things I wouldn't dream of leaving the way they are on on one of mine (I'm a bit of a perfectionist, I admit ), but then it's not me the maker has to please. If a customer is happy lay down their cash and is more than happy with the end product then that's all that matters to the builder.
I still haven't made that perfect guitar, the next will be better but still won't be the best I'll ever make. The day I do make the perfect one will be the day I give up.

[woodrat]

I'm a Masters Luthier ...............I bought some Tightbond from Masters....... and used it to make a GSO .

I don't know what goes on anywhere else , but here in Newcastle we help each other out and treat potential Luthiers as new members of the family , I often offer a bit of a hand and use of my machinery to guys that are having a go at their first Guitar as well as any advice and help I can , it's what Jeff, Warren, Trevor, Justin Montifiore and the Woodrat did and still do for me and I feel I should pass it on, the young fella with a Jigsaw and Router making 1 or 2 Guitars a year , even if he sells them is not the enemy , it's the buggers getting Guitars mass produced in China for $30- $150 and selling them for $150 - $500 that are the enemy.

It's a bloody healthy hobby and I would Like to see more young fellas develop a hobby like that, rather than some of the less healthy pursuits they could be involved in, I applaud Strato for the awsome Job he does running the AGMS, he has started many a person, young, old, male, female, on their Lutherie journey , and we all get together once a year and make a night out of it, I applaude my mate Mark Redman, a High school IA teacher , who has his kids making Ukes, and I'll foster and help any bugger who want's to have a go.

For Christ Sake it's Just a bloody Guitar , they are not performing amatuer brain surgery, the worst , the absolute worst that can happen is a shit Guitar , and the mass makers have been making those in their thousands for years.

And so endith my rant

Paul...I couldn't agree more! I would love to see more young blokes (and lasses too) with a fret saw or a block plane in their hand than a video game controller.

John

[demonx]

I'm reading your comments and some are coming down on me as if I'm putting down all beginners. Well I absolutely do not, in fact I regularly help new builders on PG forum and occasionally chime in on Ssorg to help them. I visited the clubhouse I guess you could call it of the local "guitar club" the other day and offered hours of advice to the guy who runs it. Its a group of complete beginners building guitars. I offered they could run a session from my workshop and I can share even more info hands on.

What I am putting down is the new builders that are advertising themselves, taking on clients, taking money for work they simply cannot do yet then bailing leaving people guitar less or cashless and this is becoming very very common at the moment. Its a new fad and it's very wrong. Anyone who's a regular at ssorg knows this all too well. There's pages of threads on this very topic and its creating a trend of beliefs that all luthiers are becoming untrustable.

We were all new builders at some stage. My first guitar was built before I even owned a jigsaw! I only had a hammer, chisel and handsaw. But that was 1990 and I didn't sell a guitar until the 2011. There's a big difference in the morals between what you guys are assuming (based on your/our) integrity as decent human beings and about the scammers and immoral acts that are becoming all too popular.

What does it matter? Buyer beware?

It means that the real "luthiers" all get bundled up into a miss trustable group because of a new wave of bad seeds. People are starting to not trust builders, who may be 100% honest and building fabulous instruments. Before the internet this didn't happen as easily, but now there is worldwide marketing at the click of a button and there's always lines of scanners willing to take advantage of that.

So cast opinions towards and mock me if you must, but in the end I'm only saying what I feel to be a growing trend that is terribly wrong. It may not be effecting a lot of the guys in this forum and it certainly doesn't effect the hobbiests, but for anyone marketing themselves in a bigger/wider global audience and trying to promote a new legitimate business, they will know what I'm talking about and it is a serious issue.

[DarwinStrings]

I get your feeling Allan, as a carpenter/joiner I am sure that some of my first time customers have painted a hat, spurs and a six shooter on me as I walked up their driveway for a quote. The cowboy tag is something you get used too as a prejudice of new customers and given the state of the trade it is reasonable for them to be cautious. You get lumped into the bad reputation but with a few good examples of your work on hand it is easy enough to look like you wear a surgical gown rather than a Stetson.

Jim

[Dekka]

ANZMcLF

.....with fries.

That's funny! I'll give you points for that!

I will clarify what I meant by McLuthiers though. If you get on some of the bigger, international forums it seems that every kid who owns a jigsaw and a router and has build half a guitar is trying to take on customers and start a business.

The guys on this forum are different. First of all they have talent, there is some redicilously good talent on this forum and there are also a handful of professional builders that are also very highly skilled. There's not one person I've seen on this forum I'd consider a McLuthier.

Allan, now that you have provided a less generalised explanation I can see what you are suggesting.
I must admit, however, your original post came across to me as someone who was pissing in two directions from some lofty perch:-
1. On the efforts of all budding, young luthiers.
2. In the pockets of the experienced luthiers on ANZLF.

I wasn't trying to incite a "call to arms" against your opinion... I was just verbally popping up my umbrella.
Anyhow, I hope the Guitars Makers Festival is swamped by phoneless youths with sawdust in their nostrils and splinters in their hands.

[needsmorecowbel]

What were the actual specfics for a scam? Personally it seems like a buyer would really have to do some fairly lacklustre research in order to get scammed out of a guitar.

The First page of the google.com.au search: "Custom Made Guitars" comes back with some very very trusted names...

Stu

[demonx]

I know I used the word scammers, but it's probably not the right choice of words.

I'm sure these guys start out with good intentions, wanting to live the dream of being a luthier, but it doesn't always end that way, then they pack up, drop off the face of the earth, uncontactable as they only had an online face and no workshop etc, no govt registered business. No business address etc.

If you get on ss org there's been an overwhelming amount of "anyone heard from such n such" threads in recent years. It is sadly way too common. Or, I paid in full for my guitar, it's been two years and now no reply to my email threads.

Even one guy who was a regular on the PG forum (which like anzlf generally has a great, stand up bunch of members) took many guys for a ride a few years back. He returned some money's but last I heard many people got burned.

I'm not going to list "names" here. It's not my place.

I'm just saying its not a perfect world and unfortunately our trade has a dark side. I am also pretty sure this kind of behaviour is fairly limited to the electric scene. I only know of one really dodgy builder here in Australia (who is infamous worldwide for being do terrible) so let's hope its strictly an overseas thing and doesn't infest our local scene.

Back to the guitar festival - yes, I'm sure it'll be a great turn out. Awareness of it must be growing as I had a current customer ask me if I was attending and emailed me a flyer.

[demonx]

I should also mention that its usually the cheaper price that attracts the buyers. The whole why should I buy a three or four thousand dollar guitar when this new builder will do it for a grand. That sort of thing.

I will also mention that on ss org members are so touchy on new builders popping up on there these days a lot of them get ripped to shreds now at even the slightest hint of dodgy ness.

[Nick]

I should also mention that its usually the cheaper price that attracts the buyers. The whole why should I buy a three or four thousand dollar guitar when this new builder will do it for a grand. That sort of thing.

I used to get comments like that a fair bit and my answer to them was "Well go and buy the one for a grand & enjoy it." I neither will drop my standards to build to that level* (unless I'm building a cigarbox guitar that has that rough and ready look built into it's genes) or want a customer like that as they usually want the full Champagne breakfast for the price of a glass of milk and a bit of dry toast and are generally a pain in the chuff to deal with anyway.



*I'm not saying that because I rank myself or my guitars but more from the point of view that I spend so long delivering a guitar I would be proud to own myself (and as I stated earlier, I'm a bit anally retentive when it comes to fit, finish and detail) that it's not fair to me or the customer to cut corners for a lower budget.

[Nick]

There's a guy near me named Andrew Knight, who I've been to many times, and I respect his work. In fact I recommend him to guys with jobs I'm up for. Recently, I had a look at his website, on which, a rant against anyone not a "Master Luthier" has appeared.

By the way, I hate that label "Master Luthier"! Unless you've trained under a recognized craftsman (which there are very few of these days IMHO) and been making guitars for many,many,many years to an extremely high standard then to me, the label is meaningless and unfortunately, is used more as a marketing tool these days than an indication as to their level of professional skills, they maybe good,sure, but "master" should be reserved for the true & experienced craftsmen.

[Dekka]

I've always understood the title "Master" originally meant one who has apprentices under him... a teacher, i.e., the Master of apprentices.
I think it's only in modern times that it has been used to suggest some elite status. Master Builder, Brewer, Baiter.

[ozwood]

I've always understood the title "Master" originally meant one who has apprentices under him... a teacher, i.e., the Master of apprentices.
I think it's only in modern times that it has been used to suggest some elite status. Master Builder, Brewer, Baiter.

Ah Dekka , your one of the Funniest amatuer Baiter's I know.

[jeffhigh]

So Allan (Searle) are we going to see you at this acoustic oriented festival?

[needsmorecowbel]

Are there going to be refreshments afterwards? I don't mind hosting some beers as my house is about a 10 minute drive from the venue. Just PM me or have a chat to me on the day and if there is interest it can be arranged.

Stu

[Dekka]

I've always understood the title "Master" originally meant one who has apprentices under him... a teacher, i.e., the Master of apprentices.
I think it's only in modern times that it has been used to suggest some elite status. Master Builder, Brewer, Baiter.

Ah Dekka , your one of the Funniest amatuer Baiter's I know.

[demonx]

So Allan (Searle) are we going to see you at this acoustic oriented festival?

Not this year. Sorry

[rocket]

Butterflies!!

[ozwood]

can't wait !

[rocket]

Will be good to meet up with some of our forum dudes though!
R

[rocket]

Are you going south for the weekend Paul?
Rod.

[ozwood]

Are you going south for the weekend Paul?
Rod.

Yes Rod,

Jeff Highland and I are both heading for Mexico!

See you there.

Cheers,

[rocket]

Bring ya woolies, we do spring a bit different down here!!
Rod.

[rocket]

10 degrees in Melbourne at the moment and persistent rain, really feeling for our northern friends with their state ablaze.
Rod.

[jeff crisp]

Butterflies!!

Pterodactyls!!!