Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

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vandenboom
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Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by vandenboom » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:15 pm

I have a pretty new 400mm Carbatec drum sander - same model I have seen a number of forum members have.
Last weekend, I was sanding 17" joined tops/backs obviously requiring 2 passes for each thickness. I was pretty patient and not biting off too much - no more than quarter turn of adjuster.
The same problem occurred twice, in which paper wore/tore away at the fastening point on the left side. Clearly this is a weak point that is suffering more than other areas of the paper when it first hits the wood and 'settles in'.
Has anyone else experience this? Any ideas? thanks. Frank.
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by demonx » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:37 am

I own this same model. I've put it through enough stress that it cooked the controller board and had to be replaced. Its never lost the paper and I've changed it several times

My first guess would be that you're not getting the paper tight enough to the drum, which would create a couple problems including an uneven sanding surface, but it would also shorten the paper so you don't have enough being held by the clamp at the end.

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by demonx » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:45 am

I just re read your post, ignore my above comment

You said you are passing 17" (43cm) through a 40cm sander.

Its possible that maybe its not shimmed exact and this outer point is at the lowest position creating the extra friction resulting in the wear?

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by Taffy Evans » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:42 am

Hi Frank, yes that has happend to me a couple of times. To fix I have used a bit of contact cememt under the paper where it tucks into the slot. Also I have tucked the end back on itself to increase the thickness under the clamp. I hope I understood your post correctly.
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:50 am

+1 for the paper not being securely anchored. Happens occasionally on my performax.
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by ozziebluesman » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:59 am

I have the same machine and it took me six paper changes to get it right.

The paper has to be tight!

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by zendo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:11 am

vandenboom wrote:I have a pretty new 400mm Carbatec drum sander - same model I have seen a number of forum members have.
Last weekend, I was sanding 17" joined tops/backs obviously requiring 2 passes for each thickness. I was pretty patient and not biting off too much - no more than quarter turn of adjuster.
The same problem occurred twice, in which paper wore/tore away at the fastening point on the left side. Clearly this is a weak point that is suffering more than other areas of the paper when it first hits the wood and 'settles in'.
Has anyone else experience this? Any ideas? thanks. Frank.
carbatec sander.png
I have the same machine. A couple of times mine tore away at the right side. Ensuring the paper is tight and using a sanding board that has the same angle as the roller (if the shims aren't able to do the job) usually works for me to keep the soundboards sanded accurately. I just bought some sandpaper in bulk from the Sandpaper Man and this looks strong but haven't tried it yet because I still have some Carbatec ready made to use up first. Hope this helps.

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by zendo » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:14 am

zendo wrote:
vandenboom wrote:I have a pretty new 400mm Carbatec drum sander - same model I have seen a number of forum members have.
Last weekend, I was sanding 17" joined tops/backs obviously requiring 2 passes for each thickness. I was pretty patient and not biting off too much - no more than quarter turn of adjuster.
The same problem occurred twice, in which paper wore/tore away at the fastening point on the left side. Clearly this is a weak point that is suffering more than other areas of the paper when it first hits the wood and 'settles in'.
Has anyone else experience this? Any ideas? thanks. Frank.
carbatec sander.png
I have the same machine. A couple of times mine tore away at the right side. Ensuring the paper is tight and using a sanding board that has the same angle as the roller (if the shims aren't able to do the job) usually works for me to keep the soundboards sanded accurately. I just bought some sandpaper in bulk from the Sandpaper Man and this looks strong but haven't tried it yet because I still have some Carbatec ready made to use up first. Hope this helps.

Just remembered - I had one snap at the end once and reused it by strengthening the end with glued on material from a used sandpaper piece... seemed to work well

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by vandenboom » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:05 pm

Thanks everyone - will do two things - extra care to get fit super tight and Taffy's suggestion on doubling up on the tail and tacking it down somehow.

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by Taffy Evans » Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:44 pm

Hi, sorry to resurrect this old post, but in my searches for a solution I keep landing here. Over the years I have been gluing the righthand side of the paper to the drum of my Carbatec sander as I could never find the clamping mechanism. Not good but it seemed to work. As I wanted to start using a different grade of sandpaper often this was not a good idea anymore.

I finally decided to fix the problem. The problem is I can't see any clamping method, or rather I can see the mechanism on the right side of the drum but can't get it to work I would have thought that when I move the actuating lever I would have seen a jaw or foot, or something open up to take the end of the paper. Nothing moves other than the lever I'm pushing.

I've included some photos, but I don't know if they will help. Does anybody have any more ideas since I was last here?
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Thanks.
Cheers Taff
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:54 pm

Taff if the mechanism is the same as the Performax machines then this might help. There should be a pair of jaws that grip the tail of the sandpaper strip. One jaw becomes a lever that you squeeze in towards the drum to open the jaws.
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by vandenboom » Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:09 pm

Hi Taffy
This continued to be a big frustration to me over all these years. Like you , I recently said - stuff this - there must be an explanation.
One of your pics shows a view from the other end of the drum. It helped me discover a small piece of sandpaper that had torn off sometime below the mouth of the clamp. That was my first problem. Got that out.
What I do now.....
The sandpaper tail is about 5cm long. I use a thin 6" ruler to help guide the tail down. The pic shows the ruler at almost 90 deg to the drum and the sandpaper tail is above the ruler. There is a slit down the bottom of that path that the paper must slide through. The ruler can help get it down there. Then when you release the drum from the that holding bolt, the paper tensions just a bit more.
Hope that helps.
Frank
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:57 pm

Once I've got the tail through the jaws I grab the end of the tail and give it a pull while releasing the clamp lever. As the jaws close they'll exert a bit of tension on the tail and pull things tight. The Performax comes with a little tool that allows you to hold the jaws open without needing to hold your finger on the lever.
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by vandenboom » Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:20 pm

We can't even see the tail let alone get our hands on it. Poor design.

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:56 pm

Agreed the design isn't that great but I always manage to get my belts on without too much dicking around. Maybe the inside of right side of the drum is more visible on the Performax machines.
vandenboom wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:20 pm
We can't even see the tail let alone get our hands on it. Poor design.
Martin

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by kiwigeo » Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:09 pm

On Performax the outer end of the drum is easily accessible. The inboard side...I can see everything by sighting through the gap between the height adjuster slide and the frame. I usually have 50mm of tail protruding past the outboard clamp but at least 75mm protruding past the inboard clamp. When I cut my 75mm wide belts the tail taper starts around 320mm in from each end of the belt. When Im inserting the tails into the clamps I give the tail a curl in the opposite direction the curve of the belt on the drum which helps it through the jaws.
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by Taffy Evans » Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:51 am

Hi guys, thanks for the quick replies. Looking at your photos and comment had me losing sleep last night, so up at 5 am and into the workshop.
On checking, I notice that the clamping device on my drum is nowhere near the slot. There is nothing. In the photo, I show the slot, a black marker, which is an original mark I put there when the unit was new [I just marked over it so it shows up, and the white mark showing the actuating lever. It does not look correct to me. What do you think? Thanks for the help.
Taff
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by Taffy Evans » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:41 am

Ha-ah, :o on looking more closely I figured something had moved. The black mark I remembered was the location of the actuating lever, back in the day. So I tried, with the help of a big screwdriver, to move the locking device and the whole chrome assembly, back to that mark, and it all moved back.

If held in place with the screwdriver the sandpaper end goes in easily, releasing the pressure on the screwdriver and the tension spring brings the whole assembly back out of position.

So, from one problem to another. I wish I still had my shop-built drum sander. :x
Cheers Taff
Taff

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by Pat.Hawkins » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:49 am

I've always struggled with this.
I found the lever had two tensions and I was only moving it half-way. I found that considerable force was needed to open the jaw all the way. It's quite hard on the finger and sometimes needs several attempts.
Also,
Is that spring loaded bolt protruding from the rhs meant to give your finger a rest and hold the lever open?

If you engage it fully then rotate the drum backwards it "kinda" holds the lever open - is that it's purpose?
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by vandenboom » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:44 pm

That's is definitely the purpose of that spring loaded bolt.

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by peter.coombe » Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:55 am

This has been an ongoing issue for me for many years. My machine was made in 2001, so now has been 22 years of problems. The right hand side tends to slip out, and it sometimes takes many attempts to get a sanding belt to stay in place, so sanding belt changes is something I hate doing. It has been the subject of more bad language than every thing else combined. So, I have just changed the sanding belt, and it had taken around 5 attempts to get it to stay put. Great. Then last night the feed belt started jerking, with a noise coming from the feed mechanism. AARRRRGGHH!!! Video has just been sent off to Carbitec.
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:06 pm

The Performax machine appears to have the the jaw assembly attached to the inside of the drum with a screw accessible from outside of drum....a different set up to the Carbatec machine
Martin

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:08 pm

peter.coombe wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:55 am
This has been an ongoing issue for me for many years. My machine was made in 2001, so now has been 22 years of problems. The right hand side tends to slip out, and it sometimes takes many attempts to get a sanding belt to stay in place, so sanding belt changes is something I hate doing. It has been the subject of more bad language than every thing else combined. So, I have just changed the sanding belt, and it had taken around 5 attempts to get it to stay put. Great. Then last night the feed belt started jerking, with a noise coming from the feed mechanism. AARRRRGGHH!!! Video has just been sent off to Carbitec.
The feed belt mechanism on The Performax is a pain to adjust and I had to replace the motor/gear box about a year out of warranty.

All of these drum sanders seem to have issues and getting a machine free of same is just a matter of luck.
Martin

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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by Taffy Evans » Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:17 pm

Hi again, well I might be a bit early making any (positive) comments, but, using ideas gained from this thread I did the following.
I put extra force on the clamping lever and, as I said before, moved the whole assembly so it sat directly under the slot in the drum.
I could not see any way the paper could be gripped but pushed it in to the opening and then pushed it down further with a small steel rule, as advised.
I then released holding pressure on the clamping assembly and let the spring pull the whole assembly back…
I pulled really hard on the, unfitted, test piece of belt and could not move it.
I will try a proper set up tomorrow.

You can add to the sander issues, (from new).
Hight adjustment will not go lower than 5mm so I have to use a sheet of Masonite on top of the drive belt.
There is a few thousands difference on each side of a board. Not a level drum.
The drum rises as timber goes through, so I use multiple 1/64” passes.

I’ll be back
Taff
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Re: Carbatec 400m Drum Sander Problem

Post by vandenboom » Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:57 pm

Taffy
Good that you might have found a way of getting it to lock in. Sounds similar to my approach. But I would love to know why that works. Something like a scope camera might provide give a clearer view.
My min height is about 2.5m but I agree the drum height flexes and you need to use tiny increments as you get closer to target.
Another issue with the flexing is that I have to avoid putting two similar pieces through at same time eg. 2 sides or 2 bindings. The piece closer to the open end sometimes loses traction so stops moving or worse still gets spat out.
I still have my home made drum sander which requires manual feed and I can get that as low as I like provided I can manage the feed. I have 80g on the carbatec and 120 on my homemade unit. It's a good combination to have. Despite not having motorised feed, the homemade unit is much more versatile.
Frank

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