Cole Clark repair

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jeffhigh
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Cole Clark repair

Post by jeffhigh » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:56 pm

I think I am going to decline this one unless any of you have suggestions.
Cole Clark Fat Lady 2 with a lot of buzz, everywhere I tap on the lower bout sounds "clacky"
No wires in contact with the soundboard, I suspect multiple loose braces.
I suspect it has had exposure to a hot car,but no deformation showing.
With the braces set in machined slots in the top as they do, I can't feel any gaps, other than flooding with superglue, can't imagine how I could repair this without pulling the back off and removing each brace.

Anyone got any experience here or suggestions?

Ormsby Guitars
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Ormsby Guitars » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:20 pm

jeffhigh wrote:I think I am going to decline this one unless any of you have suggestions.
Cole Clark Fat Lady 2 with a lot of buzz, everywhere I tap on the lower bout sounds "clacky"
No wires in contact with the soundboard, I suspect multiple loose braces.
I suspect it has had exposure to a hot car,but no deformation showing.
With the braces set in machined slots in the top as they do, I can't feel any gaps, other than flooding with superglue, can't imagine how I could repair this without pulling the back off and removing each brace.

Anyone got any experience here or suggestions?
Decline, decline, decline. They are a pain to work on.

simso
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by simso » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:36 pm

Yes, I will re-interate perrys comments, abort!!, Will Robinson, abort!!

Ive changed the top on a fl3, and I can say never ever again will I do that..

If its got a rattle it could be anything from the small standoffs under the bridge, to the standoffs on the two stand alone pickups to the aluminium rail that runs full length of the guitar to braces popping out of the cnc grooved channels, there are so many reasons why you can get a rattle on a cole clark.
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

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Bob Connor
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Bob Connor » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:15 pm

Cole-Clarks make really good kindling.

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ozwood
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by ozwood » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:02 am

Hi Gents,

Everytime I look into a Cole Clark I shudder, no other instrument looks that Shitty from the inside, yet I have to sit there an smile while the customer tells me what a great guitar they are, one customer in particular would rave on non stop about what a great guitar they are every time I was fixing his, so one day he sensed my disgust and said your not that keen on them are you , I said nothing , I handed him an inspection mirror and said have a look inside mine(a falcate braced one) I said now look inside yours , he stopped raving after that, BTW I was fixing a crack in the Bunya top at the time. :roll: .

So endith my rant.
Paul .

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demonx
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by demonx » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:29 am

I'm surprised to hear about these guitars falling apart. I have one of the early ones (number one hundred and something) and apart from a few dings and old strings its as solid as it was over a decade ago. I will add though that if I could afford one, my main acoustic would be a churchill, not the CC.

Ormsby Guitars
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Ormsby Guitars » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:34 pm

They are terrible guitars. And as experienced by others in this thread, the owners appear to be very insecure in their OTT love for them. They need validation it seems. They don't build guitars. They build products.

The only brand I dislike working on more, that has the same level of "love", is Ovation.

One local store I worked with had three CC's that all had wolf notes, and sustain issues around the 10-11th fret on the A string (and the same pitch on other strings). I solved the issue by adding a washer under a couple machine heads, which moved that problem note to a different area further up the neck where it wouldnt be an issue. The store was "amazed" and reported back to Cole Clark, who called me to express their disgust that I would do something like that, and their "combined experience of over 170 years in luthery" told them that this fix wouldnt work. They also said "We dont think that problem is an issue, but we've heard of it a few times before".

Good luck to anyone wanting a neck reset in the future, as they use a Spanish style neck joint. :cl

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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Taffy Evans » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:20 am

Yes I've had quite a few of them over the bench and agree with the comments above. Have a look at this design feature.

I refer the customer back to the manufacturer.
1-DSCF6179.JPG
1-DSCF6179.JPG (66.48 KiB) Viewed 26404 times
Taff

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Dominic
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Dominic » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:23 am

Had the same issue a while ago. Rattles that seemed to appear from nowhere. Spent ages doing frets, setting action, relief, everything I could think of. Seemed to disappear then come back. Humidity??? The guy loved CC guitars anyway even though he said it had been like this since new.
Strange market we operate in.
Dom
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but you can't bomb the world to peace!

jeffhigh
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by jeffhigh » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:34 am

Yeah sure is
This one is ok on the neck but the soundboard is buzzy, goes clack when I tap it over most of the lower bout.
I suspect it has been in a hot car.
With the braces inset into slots as they are, I can't move them around or get a feeler under them to confirm.
All I can think of is to put it upsidedown and wick in some waterthin CA along the brace?
Any other suggestions besides junking it?

Ormsby Guitars
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Ormsby Guitars » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:57 am

jeffhigh wrote:Yeah sure is
This one is ok on the neck but the soundboard is buzzy, goes clack when I tap it over most of the lower bout.
I suspect it has been in a hot car.
With the braces inset into slots as they are, I can't move them around or get a feeler under them to confirm.
All I can think of is to put it upsidedown and wick in some waterthin CA along the brace?
Any other suggestions besides junking it?
No, just junk it.

If it cant be fixed, due to a design flaw, it will soon be "your fault".

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kiwigeo
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:59 am

jeffhigh wrote:Yeah sure is
This one is ok on the neck but the soundboard is buzzy, goes clack when I tap it over most of the lower bout.
I suspect it has been in a hot car.
With the braces inset into slots as they are, I can't move them around or get a feeler under them to confirm.
All I can think of is to put it upsidedown and wick in some waterthin CA along the brace?
Any other suggestions besides junking it?
Only one suggestion......tell your customer to wear earmuffs while hes playing.
Martin

simso
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by simso » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:17 am

Ormsby Guitars wrote:If it cant be fixed, due to a design flaw, it will soon be "your fault".
I hate those jobs, you do your best, but internally know that its a crap design your working around, and you know it will probably fail again, and yes it will then be your fault its failed...
Steve
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Do your own repairs - http://www.mirwa.com.au/How_to_Series.html

nnickusa
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by nnickusa » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:58 pm

That's why I returned the old 00-ish my neighboor asked me to fix. If you remember, the one with the "poly" coating to strengthen the top.....

At the same time, a compensated nut was fabricated from brass, and inset into the fingerboard. I mean compensated about 5-7mm on one string.

He's convinced it's fine, but for the lifting bridge, but I reckon if I glue the bridge back down and flatten it out a bit, the intontion will be buggered, and the fretboard will need replacing, and, and, and.....it'll be MY fault, so I'm off the job. I'll refer him to a couple guys I know in the area......

Safer that way, and we can stay friends, and he can say I'm honest.....
I wish I was half the man my dog thinks I am....

Cheers,
Nick

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Bob Connor
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Bob Connor » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:55 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Only one suggestion......tell your customer to wear earmuffs while hes playing.

Maybe he already is. :lol:
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needsmorecowbel
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by needsmorecowbel » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:32 pm

Do Cole Clark have any higher end/ custom shop models that don't utilise the 'trench' bracing?

jeffhigh
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by jeffhigh » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:52 pm

needsmorecowbel wrote:Do Cole Clark have any higher end/ custom shop models that don't utilise the 'trench' bracing?
No

Having looked and felt around a bit more I found that it was the "Face sensor brace", an aluminium bar with sensor which had come adrift.

I rang Cole Clark's service department whose response was "you're in for some fun"
After they described the repair I decided they could have the fun.

However pulling the bar around to feel how loose it was seems to have stopped it rattling when playing the low E for now so back to the owner it goes, so he can send it to Cole Clark when he wants.

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needsmorecowbel
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by needsmorecowbel » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:33 pm

"you're in for some fun"
- Such enthusiasm from a service dept

There seems to be this really weird one way rivalry between Cole Clark and Maton. If you asked the guys at the Maton factory they'd potentially just say: "Sorry? Do we?..."

I worked in the C.C factory for a day for work experience and saw about 30-40 guitars (2 days worth of guitar production) on a rack away from the rest. I stupidly asked if they were headed to the wood chipper to which I got the approximate response: The Neck angles are all wrong. We are still thinking of a fix.

The funny thing was that the bridges would have to have been approx 10-20mm thicker to accomodate the strings. Finding a cheap fix for that (as I assume they had glued the necks on already)... yeesh...

That work experience behind the scenes turned me off store bought acoustic guitars. Very eye opening.

nikodem
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by nikodem » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:53 am

Hi,
First of all: Hello world :)

I've found this thread, and thought I could ask you for some advice (thanks in advance).
do you guys think that Matons at similar price are better instruments?
I'm was thinking about CC FL1A or Maton EBG808L (I know that back&sides are laminated...).

Cheers.

Taffy Evans
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Taffy Evans » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:38 am

Both makes of guitars come into my shop with mainly the same issue's, pulled [bellied up] tops often with bridges lifting off, and at times top's sinking in front of the bridge. Both guitars use the same/similar bridge pickup method.
Also with the Maton I find that due to the braces not being checked into the side kerfing that they let go from the top more easily, this of course also leads to the issues mentioned above. The CC bracing has already been covered.

I had a customer play his Maton to me to demonstrate a buzz he had, he tucked the guitar under his arm [but not supported by his knee] clamped it to his body with his arm, just as I said to him "I wouldn't do that" a loud crack sound was heard and I informed him without looking that he had popped a brace of the back or the top.

They both have short falls but it may also be a case of how well a player looks after his guitar, they are both factory made guitars and factories have deadlines, time constraints and costing issues.

If I had a pickup that was causing a problem with some owners/guitars I could easily change it, but that is a big costly step for the factory product I would imagine. It could be isolated to different parts of the country, because when I mentioned my observations to Maton some years ago, they indicated they were not having any problems. Could be also that the problems are often found out of the warranty period so they don't get to hear about it.
Best you play both and see for yourself what sounds/feels best for your $$$$$$$. Play plugged and unplugged.
Taff

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woodrat
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by woodrat » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:18 am

[/quote]

No, just junk it.

If it cant be fixed, due to a design flaw, it will soon be "your fault".[/quote]

Safest play by far! :)

Sadly their guitars are superbly marketed (perpetrated on the unknowledgeable) and we are up against glossy advertisement induced mass hysteria with regard to CC's especially...

John
"It's never too late to be what you might have been " - George Eliot

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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by jeff crisp » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:09 pm

Just heard on local radio, Cole Clark up in flames.

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DarwinStrings
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by DarwinStrings » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:19 pm

G'day Jeff and welcome to the forum (2 posts, must have missed your first). Bummer, that will put a few people out of work.

Jim
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Tod Gilding
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Tod Gilding » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:23 pm

There may be a party at the Maton Factory to celebrate ............. I'm On My Way :gui :gui :gui :gui
Tod



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Taffy Evans
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Re: Cole Clark repair

Post by Taffy Evans » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:07 am

I read the report and some other interesting stuff about Cole Clark on site called Tonedeaf. No pun inteanded.
Taff

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