Dust Control

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simso
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Dust Control

Post by simso » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:11 pm

The curse of everyone I think.

Anyone got some ideas on extracting dust from multiple machines

Our woodwork room is just a joke, whilst I have extraction of everything, it just doesnt seem to draw the dust away, the benches are covered everyday in dust to the point you give up trying to use the benches.

Heres an old clean photo, you can see the issues, storage frames in the room, open benches to the machinery, its just insane.

Nowadays its no where near this clean
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guitar room 3.jpg
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guitar room 2.jpg
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guitar room 1.jpg
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Steve
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:14 pm

Im thinking, part of the problem, is shelves, I need to loose every shelf as this is just an area for dust to collect,

I also think, I did it wrong by drawing the air up away from the machines, I think, It should probably draw down under the floor boards to the dust extractor.

Ideas
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rocket
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Re: Dust Control

Post by rocket » Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:50 pm

I don't know how you can put up with a woodwork room like that Steve, it's just not on mate :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Dust Control

Post by auscab » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:04 pm

I had this book that was a big help when I did my workshop.

http://www.amazon.com/Woodshop-Dust-Con ... salglansky

I built what they call in the book "A central system" all machines go to one main pipe then to the drop box where 98% of the dust drops down into a bag, which is a 44 gal drum liner. The fine material goes through the fan to the plenum box which holds the filters.The book has all the information on how to do it a few ways from memory. The drop box and plenum box I built from chipboard, all the collars are from dissected 20 liter drums

From what I can see of yours Steve the upright pipes should be feeding into a larger diameter pipe that runs to the extractor , like a 10 inch or 12 inch, and the sucker at the end looks like it should be at least three times as big.
If it is PVC being used they recommend earthing it, We have Copper wire spiral wrapped around our PVC pipes every 4 inches, earthed in a few spots. There are gates on each machine so just the machines being used get suction.

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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:45 pm

Rod, thats when its cleaned, about 2-3 hrs of work cleaning, and first machine running makes a mess

Auscab, any pictures of what your talking about, sound really good.
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:53 pm

Just ordered that book rob. thanks for the link.

Heres a photo of dust on the benches after they had just been cleaned.
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:58 pm

Being the long weekend, means im there by myself,so I want to do something about it, and get it under control.

Ive started ripping out the shelving in the room, and relocating it elsewhere, now it looks like a bombs gone off
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DarwinStrings
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Re: Dust Control

Post by DarwinStrings » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:10 pm

Steve, I am not sure if it is what you are after but you can buy room air filters that hang from the ceiling and keep any dust that escapes from the machines down, they just have filters on them that you have to remove and wash every now and then.

Jim
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:18 pm

Jim, that sounds good as well.

Is this what you mean

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W326

OH&S is a big thing these days, so Ive got to get this under control but still be able to operate machinery.

Anything will help, I currently have in the room a single dust extractor unit 2hp, I think its a 1200cfm unit, but was perusing the machinery house online catalogs and think I need to at least go up to the next size 2400cfm.

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W329

I could go the next size, but it means I would have to get an electrician upstairs to wire in 3 phase to that room, ive got three phase upstairs, but it costs about 1000 dollars a wall socket fitted and installed to the switchboard
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Nick
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Nick » Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:58 pm

I'm no ventilation or extraction expert but I've built a few fume extraction and pressure systems & I'm with Rob, the longer manifold PVC tubing should be of a bigger diameter, it's all to do with flows, the smaller the pipework the greater the loss of flow. If you were to put a flowmeter right next to your fan then take another reading at the end of your current manifold I think you'd be quite shocked by the lower flow reading and it's a good flow that carrys the dust off effectively, plus you have quite a few take offs on the one run so adds to the drop in flow. I'll try and dig out some charts that should help you calculate flow loss over a certain distance and help you calculate what size you should be aiming for. Just not at work for a few days obviously so I'll look when I get back Steve.
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Nick
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Nick » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:14 pm

Came across this article whilst cruising Google specifically about woodworking systems Steve, may be of some use.
woodmagazine Duct Size.pdf
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:44 pm

Nice link, but now Im more confused, I had a blast gate at each machine already, but according to the link, to large of a pipe and you loose velocity (draw) too small of a pipe and you loose flow of air. Ill mount the blast gates onto the machines now rather than to the pipes.

Ive ordered the book referenced above, but Im thinking drawing the air up and across was a bad idea, drilling holes through the floor boards (upstairs story - mezzanine floor) and running them to a sealed collector like rob was saying and then continuing this to the ""new"" well Ill buy a new one tommorrow extraction unit. Im guessing the collector would have to be a 90 degree turn in the pipe to allow the heavy particles to drop.

Theres way too much info and my head hurts already
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Re: Dust Control

Post by auscab » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:11 pm

I have drawn a image in paint but cant get it to load , it's a bmp / jpg problem :evil: I will go back and have another try.

I don't have pictures Steve , I could take some but it would not be till Tuesday

You would have to want to spend the time to build the extractor part I'm talking of ,and the stronger bought one your looking at may do it for you. If you built it can be much more powerful than the other, but would need more space than the one you showed.

It's a box 2.4 x 1.2 x 700 , the pipe from the machines comes in from the left and goes out on the right to the fan another pipe leaves the fan and goes to the plenum box 2.4 x 300 x 600 this box lies horizontal and hangs from chains about 2.5 meters from the floor it has 7 holes ,about 600 diameter in the bottom and from these 7 felt filter socks hang well fitted to collars at top and drums down bottom. The air slows down when it enters the drop box and the dust falls , the fine dust goes through the fan and gets filtered. I have to clean my filters twice a year.

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Re: Dust Control

Post by charangohabsburg » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:28 pm

Hi Steve,

Part of your problem may be less than ideal ducting (just one example: the 90° angles which kill airflow) and dust port design of the tools. Other possible issues have already been mentioned above by Nick and Rob.

Not sure if you know Bill Pentz's very informative website (here the part on ducting and dust port design) which I believe has been mentioned before on this forum. Don't get put off by his writing style (lengthy, repetitive and polemic) because the data he provides seems to be well thought through all the details. Basically it all boils down to the issue of having enough airflow at the spot where the dust particles are created, and that each single design flaw in the whole system can make your dust extraction equipment virtually worthless.
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:02 am

Just read his whole page, I certainly have been doing things wrong.

Kind of thought I had been, as the air draw at the tools is almost nothing, so it was pretty much pointless having an extraction system in to start with.

Im going to start chasing down some 6 inch pipe tommorrow and go from there.

I managed to relocate the shelving at least, so thats a start
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Re: Dust Control

Post by DarwinStrings » Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:15 am

Yep Steve that is the thing I had in mind but you may not need it once you get the other sorted. I get good extraction with one of those 2Hp 1200 cfm (I think that's what it is) and use 100mm pipe but am only 6m from furthest machine to the extractor. Looks like you are at the same Saturday night party as me.

Jim
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:52 pm

Got rid of the benches today, my goal is to have the machinery ""wood"" room clear of any shelves or benches.

So divided the room into two sections
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:53 pm

Benches relocated, building a false wall at the end well, so I can hang tools easily on mdf
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:57 pm

Turned that into a room
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:00 pm

And finished it, now just got to paint it and get some of those refrigeration curtains from somewhere.

Finish the gyprock wall tommorrow so the wood machinery room is sealed from the rest of the shop, and then attack this dust extraction, machinery house was closed today, much to my dismay.
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Tod Gilding » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:09 pm

That's Coming along nicely Steve, But I'm buggered if I know where your gunna Find Time for Easter Eggs. :mrgreen:

Jokes Aside ...What did you work out for the gaps between the walls and metal deck roof ?
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:22 pm

Im going to be gluing foam into place for these contact areas,

All this just to get a better grip on the dust control.
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Re: Dust Control

Post by bdunne » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:30 pm

This web site has just about everything you ever wanted to know about dust extraction;

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:26 pm

And so ends my easter long weekend, now I just want to sleep the week away.

Picking up from Machinery house tommorrow new dust extractor and fittings, ""nothing 90 degrees again"". Hopefully I can run them all under the mezzanine floor.

Thanks to all for the info.
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:31 pm

Plus a gyprock wall to seperate the room from the rest of the shop. Needs a pelmet above the curtain to reduce escaping dust.

Now how does one flush.
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