Dust Control

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Tod Gilding
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Tod Gilding » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:36 pm

Job well done Now kick back :gui :gui Play a few tunes and relax :)
Tod



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simso
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:44 pm

Thanks, it feels good when you stand back and look at the before photos and then the finished product. Sense of achievement

I break in the new clean room tommorrow, got a martin with a smashed back in for repair (missing wood), Ill use the clean room to make a new back for it.

Meantime Beer-O'Clock
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Dominic
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Dominic » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:40 pm

Hey, I use 150mm lines as the main feeds and have them placed just under bench height around the wall. I then enlarged the inlets in my machines to accept 150mm gates. Use Ys to connect to the main line, not 90 degree bends. And think about the air flow inside the table saw, you want to create a cross flow over the blade and towards the outlet. Also good to have some clean air drawn in over the motor, I cut a few slots in the cab door. I used spray foam underneath to seal up gaps between the top and base. And stick a magnetic cover over your tilt slot. You can cut down a lot of dust like this.
And, clean your filter every day unless you get a good cyclone.
Cheers
Dom
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simso
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:32 pm

What filter are you talking about, the dust extractors just have a cloth bag up top and clear collection bag below, should I be possibly fitting something else as well.

On reading the specs, the cloth bag filters to 5 microns, how fine is 5 microns.

Sorry about the questions, but dust control is not something Im well versed in.

Im picking this new one up tommorrow

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W329

Steve
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mqbernardo
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Re: Dust Control

Post by mqbernardo » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:49 am

If you´re the hard headed type, you could give this PhD thesis a try:

THEORETICAL STUDY OF CYCLONE DESIGN. i couldn´t read most of it, but it apparently puts some of Mr. Pentz data into perspective.

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charangohabsburg
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Re: Dust Control

Post by charangohabsburg » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:17 am

simso wrote:On reading the specs, the cloth bag filters to 5 microns, how fine is 5 microns.
It depends on what you expect the filters to do. It is coarse enough to let through all the stuff that is hazardous for our lungs but filters out the dust that settles down fast. With a 5 micron filtering, if your shop had windows (I believe yours hasn't, but I just mention it to illustrate with an example), these windows would have a disturbing layer of dust on them after a few weeks. Really not the stuff you want to breathe. Good daily ventilation of the shop would be the absolute minimum with such filters. Keep on reading Bill Pentz's site.
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Kim
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Kim » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:55 am

charangohabsburg wrote: Keep on reading Bill Pentz's site.
Sound advise.

As for filter I believe Dom would be referring to the pleated canister filters which replace standard cloth bags. Some of these can filter down to .5 micron however you should be running a cyclone before them or the block very quickly. In a production environment an external cyclone with hopper directly over a skip bin is the go. These come up along with 6" or 8" metal ducting from time to time on gumtree. They are excellent systems but require a kickarse in-line 3 phase blower with heavy cast iron impeller spun by around 5 horses and up. But dust does become a problem of the past and shop cleaning becomes a breeze...just make sure you have a mess bonnet over the flexi hose or you can lose tools also.

Cheers

Kim

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Re: Dust Control

Post by mqbernardo » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:46 pm

BTW, do you guys have access to good cyclone and dust extraction systems down under? in the states the stuff is (apparantly) standard mainstream but here in Europe it´s been a real problem to get myself a cyclone separator - i think i´ll have to build one myself.

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auscab
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Re: Dust Control

Post by auscab » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:12 pm

I took some pictures Steve, I have been using this system since about 1997 , my ducts go from 100mm up to a main of 150 mm that runs to the drop box, not 10 or 12 inches like I thought they were.
Some of the gates for the Thicknesser , Buzzer and Bandsaw and the switch to turn it on and off are foot operated, they wear out and need a rebuild every few years, that one at the foot of the buzzer has been remade probably five times, the foot operated switch that goes to the three phase motor has only been rebuilt once?? strange ? I must have fluked the design, it gets the most use.

The ducting goes under the floor to a separate room , in that room it goes into the drop box in the left corner ,the fan is in the right corner and the plenum box with the filters is on the other wall to the right. That's pretty much why I chose to do it this way ,It could be fitted into the odd spaces I had, and I couldn't put it outside the building.
The motor is a 3 HP 3phase [not sure ?], the fan is a cast iron 12inch , I think ?

I had an engineer look at it and asked him to give me some pulleys to make it go as fast as it safely could.

It works but if I had the space I would like a bigger cyclone system, I work in a shopping strip though and the locals would have a go at me. Actually it only just works , I extended it to take dust from a few other machines out the back and ever since it has been a little bit to much for it.

It is at the moment taking the dust from a

Radial arm saw
12" Buzzer
20" Thicknesser
Two Bandsaws
a Stroke sander
a copy lathe
and a Tenoner
with plans to fit it to a face plate lathe , when that happens I will be boosting it from the other end, or fit a bigger fan and motor as well.
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simso
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:19 pm

Thanks for that, that looks awesome.
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Dominic
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Dominic » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:21 pm

Yeah, I meant you need to clean or at least knock the fine dust out of the filter before each use. When you see charts of how quickly performance drops off when sucking dust you realise your 1500cfm extractor may be getting only 800cfm after only 10mins and it get worse quickly as more dust plugs up the last few holes in the filter.
I think Bill's main point is look at every area in the system that slows/kills air flow and fix it. Number 1, filter. I struggle with this still but have a small cyclone on my shop vac and i never have to do anything to the vac, all dust ends up in the cyclone. Emptying the vac bag is always a massive anticlimax.
I think this small one is brilliant so the next step is to get a larger cyclone on the main line.
The problem is, you still have to clean up after yourself or the dust will win.
Good luck but take the potential health implications of prolonged exposure to various dusts seriously.
Cheers
Dom
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simso
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:59 pm

I picked up a air freshner today and the bigger dust extractor.

The dust extractor and air freshner filter donw to 5 microns.

Im now tempted to get these filter cartridge inserts to go on top rather than the bags, they filter to one micron, so Im guessing thats pretty good.

They also have a handle for cleaning

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W328
Steve
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:55 am

Carbatec sell the super dust deputy cyclonic unit

http://www.carbatec.com.au/carba-tec-su ... uty_c21549

Wouldnt this actually slow your performance down, I understand it will remove the major part of the dust which is good, but the air flow restriction ??

Sorry for the questions but this as I said is stuff I know nothing about, but am trying to learn.
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Kim
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Re: Dust Control

Post by Kim » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:26 am

Steve,

I'm sure the super dust deputy is a great solution for hobbyist etc but cyclones are nothing new to industry so it may be worth your while to think a bit bigger. I've no idea what you can and can't do in terms modifications to your factory unit, but if it were me with a commercial workshop I would be looking at an industrial sized cyclone. Take a look around in industrial areas and you can often see them bolted to the 'outside' wall of the odd factory unit. They are generally made of galvanised sheet metal so are often big and grey with an elongated funnel shape to them making them look like a hopper. The volume of air they can move is impressive, and because they're setup on an external wall, they not only remove dust from the working environment but also a lot of the noise to. :wink:

As an example, here is one currently listed on Ebay by Bill's Machinery, they are up around your way BTW...That said I would not be jumping at this one because I think its probably overkill for what you need. Besides, I've seen far better for far less money...Gumtree is good and the Quokka also but to get the best deals you will probably need to be prepared to travel a bit with a trailer.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Industrial-D ... 1c2b52d0e2

Cheers

Kim

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DarwinStrings
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Re: Dust Control

Post by DarwinStrings » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:49 pm

Is there any way Steve that you can get the extractor outside under a lean-to, that way whatever comes through the filters ain't a big worry.

Jim
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Re: Dust Control

Post by auscab » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:57 pm

Or put the extractor unit in a sealed small room vented to the outside.

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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:44 pm

Thanks folks, yes bills machinery is not a cheap place, been there before.

I only noted the super deputy because it looked larger than there normal unit and is connected to a 44 gallon drum.

Its quite possible that we could build it ourselves, Ive got folders guillotines etc, but that takes time, and thats one thing we dont have enough off.

Thats a good idea about venting outside, I could easily run some ducting up onto the roof
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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:55 pm

Just a follow up on this topic.

Thanks to all who gave me ideas, I bought that book from amazon, implemented the ideas from it and here and wow what a difference it makes

Whilst we still do have some dust in the woodwork room its inconsequential to what we were having before.

Havent got photos but will upload something later, all the extraction now runs under the floor with special attention to the bend angles. Also got filter cartridges for the dust extractors and have an over head purifier,

Before when anything was being used you could see the dust in the air, now you cannot see anything let alone taste it.

Ive still got to fit however some timer switches for convenience, that way you walk into the room push the switch and the dust extractor and air puirifier will run for a pre-determined time period
Steve
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Re: Dust Control

Post by mavie » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:38 pm

I think for this quite a big room you have to have an industrial air purifier. Portable air purifiers have specific room coverage and it might not control the dust if as big as this. By the way have you done something now to control the dust?

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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:09 pm

Yep,

We have two dust purifiers fitted to the room which filter to 1 micron

The dust extracters are fitted with 5 micron pletted filters,

I still haven't perfected all the routing and plumbing of the lines properly yet, but getting there

I genuinely don't think you can have enough dust control
Steve
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Re: Dust Control

Post by demonx » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:08 am

Last year I looked into setting up a large/industrial style dust extraction unit with all overhead tube etc.

After a bit if research and number crunching I decided it was WAY cheaper just to add a heap more smaller extractors.

So in addition to the 1600cfm unit I used to drag around and attach to everything, I've since added another 1600cfm and two 2200cmf twin bag units.

Three of the four extractors are connected to the most used machines with blast gates to make swapping and changing easy and the last extractor I've kept mobile to swap and change to things that I don't use as often like router table, hand router etc.

In addition there are two of the large carbatec room air filters hanging from the ceiling. They make a noticeable difference, I regret not buying them years ago.

It all might seem like overkill, but there's still always dust on the floor. Just not as much in my lungs

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Re: Dust Control

Post by simso » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:14 pm

I was really surprised the difference the air purifiers made,
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Re: Dust Control

Post by demonx » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:47 pm

simso wrote:I was really surprised the difference the air purifiers made,
Massive difference.

I notice the difference in the air if I've forgotten to turn them on. It feels thick with dust if they're not on. When on it seems breathable!

I normally just have them set on low, but if I'm sweeping the floor or doing neck carving or something, I'll switch them to high.

I find myself having to clean the filters at the start of every week.

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Re: Dust Control

Post by mavie » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:10 pm

simso wrote:Yep,

We have two dust purifiers fitted to the room which filter to 1 micron

The dust extracters are fitted with 5 micron pletted filters,

I still haven't perfected all the routing and plumbing of the lines properly yet, but getting there

I genuinely don't think you can have enough dust control
Yeah but at least can be minimised. Imagine the amount of dust we can inhale without a purifier, I my self I can really witness in my own purifier whenever i replace the filter its so dusty! even if we keep on vacuuming the carpets and all..

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Re: Dust Control

Post by demonx » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:36 pm

mavie wrote:Imagine the amount of dust we can inhale without a purifier, I my self I can really witness in my own purifier .............
I don't need to imagine, I experienced a massive reduction of the chest pains I was getting at night.

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