Coming up with a model? How did you do it?

[slowlearner]

This is one for all the pro and semi-pro guys.

I'm thinking (after the next pair) of coming up with a model that I can make long term templates for and build a few of. I'm interested in how people went about deciding on the following...

A. Headstock
B. Body shape
C. Construction
D. Hardware

Also how did you come up with a design? How many prototypes did you build? How did marketing come into it also? I'm also wanting something that can be both headless or conventional (bass) so input on that would help too.

I know there will be variation electronics and materials somewhat. I'm not planning on a full time thing, but building something reproducible and clearly mine is near where I'm up to.

Ta.

[Phil Mailloux]

The short answer is it took a long time, it took me more than a year of tweaking my Fender style headstock before I got something I was happy with and willing to send out there in the world. My modern style headstock and body (DCS model) evolved over the builds, my first bass was a Warrior copy, the second one was an adjustment of the first one by moving a few lines here and there to create my own model. It ended up being similar to a Warrior, yet different. If you check out my gallery thread on Ozbass you can see the obvious resemblance between 001 up to 004 and see how the headstock evolved between these basses. The obvious thing is aesthetics here, I keep on tweaking the shapes until I have something I think is fantastic and don’t settle for less than that, whether other people think its fantastic or not is a different story though

Most of the designs I created in the beginning were made in CorelDRAW, I used the Bezier tool to move and tweak lines until I found something I like then I’d print out and create the templates. Once you build the templates and the bass you might see that a few things may need adjusting to make it “perfect” so your templates might also evolve over a few instruments and your model will probably take its final shape after a couple of instruments, my DCO also evolved this way, check out 005, 008 and 023, 008 is very different than 005 as that one was a fanned fret bass but I wasn’t satisfied with it so when I got another order for the DCO (023) I went back to the design I like best

Marketing wise, you know what mine has been, you’re doing well so far by showing your stuff where you potential customers will see it, once you start building more conventional instruments that may appeal to the masses and show them off there and on gtg’s you’ll probably get more interest, keep on building to acquire the skills and better the ones you have.

For hardware and electronics I use the good stuff, no point putting cheap asian stuff on a good instrument, I suggest you do the same if you want to sell your stuff, Hipshot is fairly easy to get a luthier rebate on their gear so its worth looking into, try to get luthier deals with local distrobutors if they carry the stuff you want. These days I buy all my hardcases through Pro Music Australia which are located 30 minutes away, they give me a good deal, you don’t need to do this full time to get a few oem deals, try putting up a website with what you’ve built so far, that goes a long way into getting a few deals out there, all of a sudden the reps feel you’re more than just a hobbyist

[Nick Payne]

The first classical I built, in 1976, I sat down with a set of French curves and played around until I had what I thought was a pleasing shape for the headstock. It wasn't until a few guitars and quite a few years later that I saw a photo of a Bouchet headstock and realised that the shape I had arrived at was very similar to his. However, as I like the shape, I've continued to use it, even though people will probably think that I'm just copying his design.

[kiwigeo]

Don't think there are many of us who can say they've arrived at a design without being influenced by others.

[pat foster]

I don't know if I qualify, but I started doodling designs long before I built my own design, probably on the order of 3 or 4 years ago. Then last year, I found myself without a commission, and enough decent wood onhand to build a guitar, so I got out my old sketches and got to work with Draftsight, a free, very capable 2D CAD program. I put all the stuff I'd been doodling into that drawing: a headstock shape that had just taken shape by itself while I was trying to come up with an alternative for the Gibson shape for an L-00 I built a few years ago (more like 5 now that I think about - sheesh!), a banjo/mandolin HS bevel that I'd always liked, a particular curve to the heel seen on some classicals, and a curvaceous body shape that had also taken shape over several years, inspired by the big-bottom L-00/Nick Lucas. Everything but the body shape was easy, but when it came to figuring out those curves, I probably spent 20m hours tweaking. I'd make one small change, and it would throw everything else off. One day all of a sudden it was just RIGHT. I decided to throw in a bevel cutaway just 'cause I thought I should how to do one, printed the drawing and started cutting wood.

That worked for me, for my first own-design anyway. Trouble is, I can't bring myself to sell it!

Pat

[slowlearner]

Thanks pat, can you post a pic or link. Sounds interesting!

[pat foster]

Pete,

Here's a link to some photos. It's the first guitar on the page.

http://patfosterguitars.com/photos.html

Pat

[martintaylor]

Hi Pete,

I have never been that happy with the headstock design I used on my first guitar. I hadn't put any real thought into it and it just happened. When I decided to build some more guitars I wanted to make sure I had something I was happy with. So, after researching lots of existing brand names headstock shapes I focussed in on the two brand names that my name represents, "Martin" and "Taylor". I am a graphic designer by trade and so am familiar with Adobe Illustrator. I placed an image of each brand headstock into illustrator and traced off the shape. I then blended the two shapes together. This gave me incremental shapes between the original 2. I just then looked at each of these steps to see if I liked any of them. In the end the one that was almost exactly in the middle was the one I liked the most and have used that shape on all my guitars since. I am really happy with the balance of the final shape. As to the shape of my guitars, well that also happened in Illustrator. For my small body, I started with rough measurements off an old Yamaha classical from the 1970s and then adjusted from there. For my Dreadnought I started with several shapes that I have admired and again just took some measurements and used that as a starting point. I am happy with the tone/sound of the 2 shapes I am building and am really happy with the shapes. I wanted something that looked balanced and proportionally correct and I think I am getting that. Of course when it all comes down to it, the customer will make the final decision. I have already been asked if I can make a J45 copy for someone but with all Aussie tone woods. I don't know if I'll take that on just yet.

[slowlearner]

tnx. cool guitar!

[nnickusa]

Tho not talking too much from experience, as I only have 3 under my belt, I've arrived at a bridge shape I like and also like the echo at the end of my fretboard. I'm still tweaking the headstock shape , but feel like I'm getting closer, and have returned to a couple shapes that I had on the first one. I also started more or less with a Gibby shape and fiddled with it...

I think it's really just time and trial and error that'll get you where you're going. it all looks very different to me in real life than when I sketch things out...The one on the right is my acoustic effort this time around.