Bolt on neck

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rocket
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Bolt on neck

Post by rocket » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:01 pm

All my builds so far have had a set dovetail neck joint and with my next build i've decided to go with a bolt on, i'm just curious which hardware those of you who have used this method many times in the past prefer, the screw in stud or the barrel nut method? I'm of the opinion that with the barrel nut option the tenon would have to be substantially longer than the usual 13mm i give my dovetail tenon to have sufficient meat ahead of the nut, i'm thinking the screw in stud option might also benefit from it being epoxied in also.
What is the most popular method?
Cheers,,

Rod.
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by vandenboom » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:26 pm

Hey Rod, well you know which method I use but I agree with you, I wouldn't use the barrel nuts on a 13 mm tenon.
Is there a reason why you have to limit it to 13mm? Not too many consequences in increasing it to more common 19 --> 23mm.
I haven't read much on the merits of one over the other, other than the concern you raise re the barrel nut method.
Two approaches I have seen used to strengthen the tenon to protect it from splitting is (1) to cut the tenon a bit thinner and glue a hardwood veneer to each side of the tenon. (2) Sink a hardwood dowel vertically down the guts of the tenon - obviously it would need to be wider than the barrel nut eg. 12 mm dowel.

Frank

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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Dave Stewart » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:29 am

Rod, I did a tutorial re bolt-ons for archtops a while ago on OLF .... may be of interest. http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 17&t=16049
As you'll see, I believe barrels are definitely superior, because the screws don't enter the tenon squarely (and barrels allow for a few degrees of gimbal to align). But yes, the tenon should be 3/4" anyway. (My tenon width is also sized for the barrel.... about .780")
I also drill & install a 3/8" dowel in the tenon beforehand.
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ozziebluesman
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by ozziebluesman » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:18 am

Hi Rod,

My last two Archtop guitar builds have bolt on necks. I make my tenon 22mm thick by 22mm deep. I glue a veneer each side of the tenon to stop it spliting and use the 1/4" bolt and nut inserts available from Shane at High Mountain Tonewoods. The inserts are epoxied in place and a hand made tool with an allen key the right size on one end is inserted through the butt of the guitar to remove the bolts. I just have to take out the fishman input jack and the neck can be removed very easily. Fact I use this method of neck attachment on all my guitars.

Cheers

Alan
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Tod Gilding
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Tod Gilding » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:30 pm

Hi Rod i use William Cumpiano's method shown here works well

http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/S ... block.html

I get the barrels and bolts from bunnies about $1 each
Tod



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Dominic
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Dominic » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:44 pm

I used the same method as for flat tops. 25mm tenon with a 12.5mm dowel half in the heel and half in the tenon. Then screw hanger screws in and I have these nice allen key cap nuts I get from Lee-Valley.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Hardware/pa ... 1306,45375

Dom
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Shane Woonton » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:37 am

Hi Dominic,

Would you mind elaborating on your method a bit? How long is your tenon? How far into the tenon do you put the hanger bolts? I assume the dowel is there to give some additional strength to the threads?

Also, when do you mark the holes for the bolts? Do you drill the neck block first, then mark the holes for the heel when aligning the neck?

Your method sounds a lot like an approach I'm about to try and I'd love to hear more.

Cheers,

Shane

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Bob Connor
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Bob Connor » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:47 am

Here's what I use Rod.

Vastly superior to anything else I've tried. I get a mate to make up the shafts and the bolts are 5m stainless available from any good fastener shop. You should be able to a local fitter and turner to whip some up for you. I 've just got a few from my mate so if you want one for your perusal let me know and I'll send one through.

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Dominic
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Dominic » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:21 pm

Hi Shane, The dowel is for the threads of the hanger bolts. I add a little epoxy when I am finished. The tenon I make is about 15mm deep. I get all the coarse thread into the tenon/heel, about 30mm. I have a jig that fits in the mortise with drill guides for the neck block. And once I am happy with the neck angle, the same jib registers off the heel shoulders and I've never had any problems lining it up. Its easy to slightly bend the hanger bolt if it off.

The hard bit is getting the cap nut onto the end of my long allen head extension and into the hole in the neck block. A bent bit of wire with some blutac on the end and fed through the F hole took a while to learn but its easy once you have the knack.

Let me know if you want some visuals and I'll take a few snaps.

Cheers
Dom
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Phil Mailloux
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Phil Mailloux » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:42 pm

Bob Connor wrote:Here's what I use Rod.

Vastly superior to anything else I've tried. I get a mate to make up the shafts and the bolts are 5m stainless available from any good fastener shop. You should be able to a local fitter and turner to whip some up for you. I 've just got a few from my mate so if you want one for your perusal let me know and I'll send one through.

This should be fairly easy to whip up on your own with a mild steel rod, drill press, tap and grinder (or steel cutting saw). I'd say a couple of hours of work should yield enough of these for a few year's worth of guitar builds. Anyone who's ever built a truss rod should be able to make those bits.
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rocket
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by rocket » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:46 pm

Thanks for all your good info but i have a confession to make, when i started roughing out my neck blank i didn't pay enough attention to the tenon detail i'd need if i was to use the barrel nut option, so the longest tenon i can achieve is 15mm and i've made it 30mm wide, so i'm going with the coarse thread screw in plug and hex drive bolt, next time round i'll pay a bit more attention , you learn from your mistakes don't you! :oops: , at least this wasn't a major one, thanks once again!
Cheers,,

Rod.
Like I said before the crash, " Hit the bloody thing, it won't hit ya back

www.octiganguitars.com

Shane Woonton
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Re: Bolt on neck

Post by Shane Woonton » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:48 am

Dominic wrote:Hi Shane, The dowel is for the threads of the hanger bolts. I add a little epoxy when I am finished. The tenon I make is about 15mm deep. I get all the coarse thread into the tenon/heel, about 30mm. I have a jig that fits in the mortise with drill guides for the neck block. And once I am happy with the neck angle, the same jib registers off the heel shoulders and I've never had any problems lining it up. Its easy to slightly bend the hanger bolt if it off.

The hard bit is getting the cap nut onto the end of my long allen head extension and into the hole in the neck block. A bent bit of wire with some blutac on the end and fed through the F hole took a while to learn but its easy once you have the knack.

Let me know if you want some visuals and I'll take a few snaps.

Cheers
Dom
Thanks Dom. If you get a chance I would love to see pics of your jig and how it registers off the mortise and off the heel?

Cheers,

Shane

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