Suitable Tasmanian soundboards

[Jokidding]

If you were building an instruments using blackwood for the back & sides what would be your first choice as a suitable Tasmanian species for the soundboard I have been lurking on this forum for a long time reading past posts but I would still like to hear forum members comments.
Jo

[ozwood]

Hi ,

There is really only KBP from Tassie IMHO , here some info you might find usefull.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4075&hilit=king+billy

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3301&p=43534&hilit ... lly#p43534

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2329&p=28080&hilit= ... lly#p28080

Cheers,

[Jokidding]

Interesting you said this and why? when Huon Pine and Celery top pine have also been used as soundboards with great success.
Jo.

Hi ,

There is really only KBP from Tassie IMHO , here some info you might find usefull.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4075&hilit=king+billy

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3301&p=43534&hilit ... lly#p43534

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2329&p=28080&hilit= ... lly#p28080

Cheers,

[jeffhigh]

If you are aiming for a High performance, responsive guitar, then I would agree with ozwood.
Despite the agressive marketing of huon and cellery top as soundboards by a certain tasmanian vendor they have high density against them and in the case of huon this is accompanied by relatively low stiffness and high wax content.
For a stage guitar, played amplified this may not be an issue, but I would not pay a premium for either of these two
YMMV

[Bob Connor]

I've built instruments from King Billy, Huon Pine and Celery Top.

Celery Top is a hardwood despite it looking like Spruce and it sounds quite tight ie not so full in the bottom end but reasonably balanced and not too responsive. Kind of what you would expect from a hardwood. I imagine it would take quite a few years of playing for it to open up. Would I build with again? - probably not.

Huon Pine has (I believe) an undeserved reputation as being unsuitable as a tonewood. I've got 2 Hawaiian lap slides here made from it that sound great. That's not just my opinion. Joe Gallacher and Stefan Sobell both rate these instruments highly.
it is very warm, loud and responsive and I would build with it in a hearbeat. If you can find Huon with the whitebait figure it often tends to be lighter in weight and have less oil content and thus is more suitable for instruments. Those two instruments are also the ones that I prefer to play. (the other two are the Celery Top and Tasmanian Myrtle topped instruments)

I guess it also depends on how you build with them. If you are just starting out in luthiery I'd stick with King Billy as it will closer in characteristics to the Cedars and Redwoods and you'll be able to get more advice from people here who have used King Billy (these two Huon ones of mine are numbers 49 and 65 and I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing)

Best of luck with it.

Regards.

[ozwood]

Hi Jo,

what would be your first choice as a suitable Tasmanian species for the soundboard

as I indicated it was my humble opinion .

Huon Pine and Celery top pine have also been used as soundboards with great success.

Your opinion. or maybe Tassie tonewoods opinion.

I have some white bait Huon I'll try one day, But I really liked the sound of the KBP one I built.

Bob has done more experimenting with soundboard woods than anyone else so his opinion would be valuable.


Cheers,

[graham mcdonald]

If you were building an instruments using blackwood for the back & sides what would be your first choice as a suitable Tasmanian species for the soundboard I have been lurking on this forum for a long time reading past posts but I would still like to hear forum members comments.
Jo

Sitka spruce.

Yes I know its not Tasmanian, but you have a century or more of people using it and there is lots of info out there on how to make it work as a guitar soundboard. King Billy can work, but there is a lot less of a body of experience about getting it to work well, and a perfectly functional AA grade (or fancier) Sitka soundboard is a lot easier to find than a suitable piece of King Billy. Essentially no one is cutting and milling King Billy in any commercial quantities and properly sawn soundboards are really just luck more than anything else.

G

[kiwigeo]

Despite the agressive marketing of huon and cellery top as soundboards by a certain tasmanian vendor.....

Surely youre (Jo)kidding

[Bruce McC]

All jokes aside, it would also depend on whether you want to make
a steel or nylon string guitar.
Why not use blackwood as a soundboard? It has been done before.

[Jokidding]

I've built instruments from King Billy, Huon Pine and Celery Top.

Celery Top is a hardwood despite it looking like Spruce and it sounds quite tight ie not so full in the bottom end but reasonably balanced and not too responsive. Kind of what you would expect from a hardwood. I imagine it would take quite a few years of playing for it to open up. Would I build with again? - probably not.

Huon Pine has (I believe) an undeserved reputation as being unsuitable as a tonewood. I've got 2 Hawaiian lap slides here made from it that sound great. That's not just my opinion. Joe Gallacher and Stefan Sobell both rate these instruments highly.
it is very warm, loud and responsive and I would build with it in a hearbeat. If you can find Huon with the whitebait figure it often tends to be lighter in weight and have less oil content and thus is more suitable for instruments. Those two instruments are also the ones that I prefer to play. (the other two are the Celery Top and Tasmanian Myrtle topped instruments)

I guess it also depends on how you build with them. If you are just starting out in luthiery I'd stick with King Billy as it will closer in characteristics to the Cedars and Redwoods and you'll be able to get more advice from people here who have used King Billy (these two Huon ones of mine are numbers 49 and 65 and I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing)

Best of luck with it.

Regards.

Well thanks Bob, For all of the above comments hopefully we will get to meet one day you sound like a nice guy dont know yet as I have never met you in person, you seem to have some good knowledge and are willing to try out different idea and like you I believe Huon pine to be an excellent soundboard, some luthiers have used celery top with success and we know king billy works.
Regards jo

[Jokidding]

If you are aiming for a High performance, responsive guitar, then I would agree with ozwood.
Despite the agressive marketing of huon and cellery top as soundboards by a certain tasmanian vendor they have high density against them and in the case of huon this is accompanied by relatively low stiffness and high wax content.
For a stage guitar, played amplified this may not be an issue, but I would not pay a premium for either of these two
YMMV

Hi Jeff, So who is this guy that is aggressively marketing Huon Pine and Celery top pine.?
Me I do lots of internet research and have heard some excellent feed back on the above woods and seen some beautiful instruments built using the above species including instruments from Bob Connor, so whats the problem you don't like them don't use them' where some luthiers do like to use them let them.
Jo

[Chalks]

Hi Jo. On the back of Bob's comments to an earlier thread I purchased a nice Huon board. I am going to give it a go one day. Bob has a lot more builds up his sleeve than me though so I am........ Umm hopeful. Worth a go though.

Chalks

[Bob Connor]

Jo

We have had people on the forum in the past who have tried to promote particular woods for their own gain.

We have actively "discouraged" this type of activity preferring to hear from people who have built with those timbers as opposed to those who are trying to profit from their solicitations.

The only way to decide if it will work for "you", is to build with it more than once.

When I say "you", I mean start developing your own body shapes, bracing designs, wood combinations, etc that will eventually bring you to the point where you can say "that is the sound that I want when I build an instrument". It really won't take long until you start hearing your "sound" coming from the guitars you build.

C.F.Martin didn't get that "Martin" sound after a couple of instruments.

I think that that the most enjoyable part of what we do is the journey rather than the destination. So experiment as much as you can.

One of our members, Jeffrey Yong, has been building superb instruments from Monkeypod for a number of years. His monkeypod instrument won a blind listening test a GAL conference (Guild of American Luthiers) against a heap of rosewood/spruce guitars a couple of years back.

Jeffrey will tell you that Monkeypod has the tap tone of limp cardboard. But he makes it work.

Why?

Because he's a bloody good luthier....

And he has worked extensively with what's available in Malaysia. And he's been doing it for a long time and he's not afraid to experiment with the local woods that are at his disposal.

Give Jeff half a dozen sets of Huon pine I wouldn't be lining up to buy the first 2 or 3, but I'd be putting in an order for numbers 4,5, or 6

Never listen to anyone who says " I have heard that...

Regards

[kiwigeo]

Hi Jeff, So who is this guy that is aggressively marketing Huon Pine and Celery top pine.?

Well at one stage he went by the name of Bob but he's not unknown to go by other names......

[kiwigeo]

Well thanks Bob, For all of the above comments hopefully we will get to meet one day you sound like a nice guy.....

I don't know if Bob is a nice guy or not but one thing I know is he has a cast iron gut 'cause he drinks Guiness.

[jeffhigh]

If you are aiming for a High performance, responsive guitar, then I would agree with ozwood.
Despite the agressive marketing of huon and cellery top as soundboards by a certain tasmanian vendor they have high density against them and in the case of huon this is accompanied by relatively low stiffness and high wax content.
For a stage guitar, played amplified this may not be an issue, but I would not pay a premium for either of these two
YMMV

Hi Jeff, So who is this guy that is aggressively marketing Huon Pine and Celery top pine.?
Me I do lots of internet research and have heard some excellent feed back on the above woods and seen some beautiful instruments built using the above species including instruments from Bob Connor, so whats the problem you don't like them don't use them' where some luthiers do like to use them let them.
Jo

Jo, you asked for opinions and I gave mine, you don't like it, don't use it.

Most of the quotes I see on the net for Huon are direct lifts from Scott Wise, rather than independent experience.
I have not said anything which could be construed as forbidding anyone from using huon or celery, just that I will not pay a premium for them.

[ozwood]

+1 for what Jeff said,

You asked our opinions , we gave them in good faith .

you then rebuked the opinions you sought.

WTF !!! if you had already made your mind up I see little point in seeking an opinion.

Perhaps what you should have said was- " I believe that Huon Pine and Celery top pine are the greatest Topwood available, hence why they are often double the price of a AAA grade spruce top , all those who agree please show your support "

Would have saved us 10 minutes each !

any you could have listened to the soothing sound of crickets !!!

[needsmorecowbel]

Silly Question for the week: Would you ever brace a huon pine/ k.b/ celery top with another timber stock? I.e. use Spruce Bracing on a K.B topped instrument? Would have thought different contraction and expansion rates might wreck the glue joins of the braces...

[Steve]

If you were building an instruments using blackwood for the back & sides what would be your first choice as a suitable Tasmanian species for the soundboard I have been lurking on this forum for a long time reading past posts but I would still like to hear forum members comments.
Jo

Hi Jo - here's a link to the very question that you asked: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2065. If I recall correctly the original guy who asked the question turned out to be a real wanker & got banned from the forum, so you're not going to be able to follow up with him. Hope you find the info in there helpful.
All the best,
Steve

[Kim]

Hi Jeff, So who is this guy that is aggressively marketing Huon Pine and Celery top pine.?
Jo

Just some shonky wood hock from Tassi claiming to understand the needs of builders, yet as far as I know, has only ever 'talked' of building an instrument. It was a weissenborne if I recall correctly but I doubt he ever completed it or even made a half decent start because he spends too much time on forums trying to peddle his wood. Anyhow when it comes to 'tonewood', his opinion could not possibly count for less and it will stay that way until he picks up some tools and learns himself from first hand experience.

Until then he would be doing the craft a great favour if he would avoid preaching at us because just as his aggressive marketing spiel is misleading or seemingly design to veil the truth of his understanding, or lack thereof, so too are most of his comments on forums, especially in regards to tonewood. Because all of it, the preaching and the spiel, is only based upon his completely unqualified translation of what others have written on internet forums and said to him about building.

The plain raw truth of the matter is he simply has no first hand experience to validate what he is reading and listening to and therefore he can't tell shit from clay. I am not saying this bloke is evil or completely dishonest. What I am saying is he is dangerous to those who know no better and would give him an ear. That's because he doesn't have a bloody clue when he's being misleading himself, he just minces it all out parrot fashion and that right there is a problem.

Well that's just my humble opinion anyhow...

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

Well that's just my humble opinion anyhow...

Cheers

Kim

Very humble....for you

[Jokidding]

As i posted in the beginning of this post if using blackwood for the back & sides what Tasmanian species would be suitable for a soundboard as after all this is where I happen to live so these timbers are easy for me to purchase, now I have lots of wood working expertise, but as of yet have not build any instruments but am looking forward to learning and hopefully will get there one day, I am in no rush.
Now thank you to Mr Bob Connor for his advice. Appreciated.
As I also posted early I have been looking at this forum for a while before joining as I want to learn and get advise and there is a few good builders here.
Now what grips you have with some one else I do not care a rats arse about.
Now I am a lady and I do not normally say too much as far is been'ing rude is concered but some of the replys are dam right rude and arrogant' so all I can say to you lot with that type of reply to a new member is you are a pack of Wankers.
Jo

[kiwigeo]

Now I am a lady and I do not normally say too much as far is been'ing rude is concered but some of the replys are dam right rude and arrogant' so all I can say to you lot with that type of reply to a new member is you are a pack of Wankers.
Jo

I'm sorry Jo but if you read some of the posts put up in the past by Bob of Tasmanian Tonewoods then I think you'll agree it's not surprising that more than one member in here reckons you and Bob are one and the same person. You see Bob has been known to appear on this forum spruiking his wares under one name....get his account nuked and then re-appear under another name. The language in your last post also doesn't do much to convince me that you're not at least related to Bob.

Of course I could be totally wrong and maybe I'm just being very cynical......

[Nick]

As i posted in the beginning of this post if using blackwood for the back & sides what Tasmanian species would be suitable for a soundboard as after all this is where I happen to live so these timbers are easy for me to purchase, now I have lots of wood working expertise, but as of yet have not build any instruments but am looking forward to learning and hopefully will get there one day, I am in no rush.
Now thank you to Mr Bob Connor for his advice. Appreciated.
As I also posted early I have been looking at this forum for a while before joining as I want to learn and get advise and there is a few good builders here.
Now what grips you have with some one else I do not care a rats arse about.
Now I am a lady and I do not normally say too much as far is been'ing rude is concered but some of the replys are dam right rude and arrogant' so all I can say to you lot with that type of reply to a new member is you are a pack of Wankers.
Jo

Hi Jo, sorry if you feel offended but if you have been lurking on the forum for some time as you say, you will have noted that the membership here can be brutally honest at times & certain issues can act as a trigger. The timber merchant mentioned in this post just happens to be one of those triggers due to the reasons given by Kim. Reading back through this post I see nothing that appears to be of an arrogant attitude. As some have said, you posted asking for opinions from people you've already acknowledged as being good builders, these were given, to take your own advice "you don't like them, dont use them" ignore them & carry on. As Bob said, if you aren't sure or don't believe other's experiences then buy some of the timbers you feel will do the job & try them, there are no right or wrong woods until you've tried a build with them.
There were no personal attacks on you in those posts that I can see (just my opinion there), unless as Martin stated & the more I read your replies I'm thinking, you are somehow tied in with aforementioned merchant? But if you think we are all a bunch of wankers then that's an opinion you are allowed to have. I've been called many things in my lifetime, that....many times & no offense taken on any of them.

[peter.coombe]

As i posted in the beginning of this post if using blackwood for the back & sides what Tasmanian species would be suitable for a soundboard

I have used a lot of Blackwood in mandolins, but only one guitar so far. Best with Blackwood has been either King Billy Pine or Engelmann Spruce. The Guitar is an 00 with an Engelmann Spruce top and sounds great. Some of the King Billy/Blackwood mandolins have been exceptional sounding instruments, but there is quite a bit of variability in sound from instrument to instrument probably because the woods vary so much. Engelmann Spruce and Blackwood is a combination that is hard to go wrong with in mandolins, and my one Blackwood guitar is telling me the same. I don't like Sitka Spruce nor Red Spruce with Blackwood B&S in mandolins (have not tried Huon Pine yet). Celery Top is ok with Blackwood, but would not be my first choice. So, if you want to stick with Tassie species, King Billy Pine would be my recommendation.

Hope that helps.