Manuel Ortez 1972 Classical

[J.F. Custom]

So it was that I was wandering around the market on the weekend just gone...

Now by habit, I always check the guitars at any stall - just for interest if nothing else. The vast majority of which are of course, very cheaply made plywood Korean or Chinese jobs. Occasionally I'll come across an older Japanese one that may have a solid top, with plywood back and sides.

Well, I saw one on the weekend from a distance that caught my attention. On closer inspection, I found it had a Spanish makers label. I had a good look, judged that it had only basic flaws from age, that I could address easily enough if I wanted. It was certainly made from solid timber and this year was, as far as I can read, it's 40th birthday.

So a bit of regular market haggling later and this little guitar came home with me for $30. I'm pretty happy about that.

The label says Manuel Ortez, Fabrica de Guitarras, ANO-1972 ( I think ), Cadiz Espana. A google search, including a google Spain search, has revealed nothing for me. Perhaps someone here has heard of them before or perhaps even knows a better way to search for info?? It is quite possible that as opposed to an individual maker bearing that name, this was a Spanish brand back in those days. It is an interesting instrument. It is, I would think, not a "top of the line" model, showing some less than refined work. It shows some signs of production/speed work such as excessive glue on bracing etc. It is quite possibly a 'cheap' old guitar, of course, cheap old are often better than many new anyway. It is made of solid timber all round and does have a real timber rosette and purflings for example, as opposed to the printed ones seen on other cheap guitars.

Ortez_Label.jpg (205.32 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

Ortez_Rosette.jpg (181.21 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

I'm guessing the neck is dovetailed on. There is a spruce neck block inside and an additional arched hardwood laminated foot bearing against the neck block, right up through to the upper transverse brace, supporting under the fingerboard. A good thing in my opinion. I can't see clearly enough, but it is even possible I can just make out the end of a non-adjustable truss rod or neck stiffener. The fretboard is again solid timber and perfectly quarter sawn and has the taper planed into its surface under the bass strings as one would expect on a well made classical. No idea of the fretboard species.The neck is quite straight still - perhaps because of the neck support, though it could do with a fret job for sure. The bridge is rosewood I think and a bit rough, though serviceable.

Ortez_Support.jpg (111.54 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

Ortez_Fingerboard.jpg (240.43 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

The top is obviously a spruce of some variety, while the back and sides... Well, I'm really unsure. Haven't seen anything quite like it before. If I had to guess, perhaps a Honduran Rosewood. It is a red/brown colour with black streaks and obviously figured. Anyone want to hazard a guess there via the pictures?

Ortez_Back.jpg (258.32 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

Ortez_Back_wood.jpg (270.96 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

Ortez_Side.jpg (240.8 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

The headstock has one horn broken off which I could match and replace easily enough if I find the time. The top has something funny going on under the bridge. As I don't do repair work in general, I have not come across this before. Perhaps one of our repair gurus can chime in. It has taken a small dive under the middle of the bridge. A mirror inside suggests no bracing is loose or broken, but I'd need to have a really close look to be sure. Perhaps the long term ill effects of humidity change? It has a very small bridge patch and five fan braces, aside from the upper and lower transverse of course. It also has been sitting in the corner of a shed or attic I'd say - it is covered in tiny spots of either spider poop or white paint specs! Not sure which Easy enough to remove in either case.

Ortez_Head.jpg (139.21 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

Ortez_Bridge.jpg (157.73 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

Anyway, a bit of tweaking and I'm pretty happy with this little purchase. For $30, it's a nice little guitar to have around to play. Oh and finally, out of interest to those who study the gore and gilet methods, here is its spectrum.

Ortez_Spectrum.jpg (205.82 KiB) Viewed 19768 times

Cheers,

Jeremy.

[56nortondomy]

RC tonewoods had some black walnut that looked a bit like that Jeremy, but it's just a guess. Wayne

[Mark McLean]

Nice pickup Jeremy. It would have been quite a thrill to spot that one and get it for a song. Looking at the back I was thinking walnut too. I have some black walnut a lot like that, with the diagonal figure showing through. Any clues from the smell? I guess it could smell of a lot of other things, depending on where it has been hiding for the last 30 years.

[Kamusur]

Nice Rosewood fretboard, and bet it wont take much to get that bridge back down.

Steve

[Bob Connor]

Ovangkol?

[kiwigeo]

Nice score Jeremy.

Looks to me like the top has lost its arch under bridge..possibly humidity related like you say. Is there a bridge patch?

[J.F. Custom]

Nice score Jeremy.

Looks to me like the top has lost its arch under bridge..possibly humidity related like you say. Is there a bridge patch?

Yes - a very small spruce one. Initial investigation suggests it is still sound, as are the braces. When time allows, I'll remove the bridge and see what it looks like under there. If there is no issue, I'll let things sit in the humidity controlled room to stabilise, then re-glue the bridge.

Bob - You know, it could quite possibly be. That's probably the closest guess I'd say. It certainly fits some of the images I've seen of it before. I don't know Ovangkol well enough to judge though, having never handled any. Do you think that was likely in use 40 years ago in Spain however? Being of West African origin, I would not have thought it a 'common' timber back then.

Wayne and Mark - anything is possible. It certainly resembles Walnut in the pics and the figure matches some of the Walnut I have seen too. However, it has a much more 'reddish' cast to it than the pictures give away. The Walnut I have dealt with over the years has not had such a pronounced red tone, but then, it could be the lacquer or shellac too so as I say, anything is possible.

Jeremy.

[Trevor Gore]

I'd be guessing a mahogany or even a Shorea sp. with a dark stain. I'd also be guessing Far East manufacturer, probably Japan, despite what the label says! And the white dots, def. Dulux circa 1987, applied to a ceiling with a roller in Tammy's bedroom.

[J.F. Custom]

I'd be guessing a mahogany or even a Shorea sp. with a dark stain.

Mahogany, possible. In some respects it does resemble it - not so used to seeing dark streaks through mahogany like that but that's not to say it does not occur. Shorea? Like Meranti?? Well, they are all guesses - who knows? Certainly a bit of variety in these guesses!

I'd also be guessing Far East manufacturer, probably Japan, despite what the label says!

Ha! That exact thought had crossed my mind actually! *sigh* But I then thought, marketing deceit 40 years ago? Surely not! Well, if anything goes here, perhaps it is not even 40 years old after all. Anyway, Japanese manufacture would explain the lack of information on any Manuel Ortez luthier or company ex Spain. Not to mention the lack of any identifying signatures or similar inside and as mentioned earlier, the signs of commercial manufacturing techniques that are there.

And the white dots, def. Dulux circa 1987, applied to a ceiling with a roller in Tammy's bedroom.

Is there no end to your talents Mr Gore? Psychic too now ?!


Trev - As a side, what do you make of the top dipping under the bridge and of the spectrum?

Overall, regardless of its origins or history, I'm still very happy with the purchase for the money. Solid timber and little of any major structural concern - I thought this would be a good instrument to 'tinker' with, having not cost me an arm and a leg to do so.

Jeremy.

[Trevor Gore]

Shorea? Like Meranti??

I've seen dark red meranti with the fleck and the dark streaks and it's one of the things that suggested Japan.

Trev - As a side, what do you make of the top dipping under the bridge...

It doesn't look like an "in use" failure to me and there seem to be no cracks due to drying out. So I'm guessing maybe over humidified and over heated (a steamy attic or a steamy shed??). The over humidity will expand the spruce cross grain, the heat softens the bridge glueline, the spruce buckles as the glueline pops leaving the bridge shorter than the spruce beneath.

That mechanism might suggest some loose back braces, too. But if the back is meranti, it's quite stable cross grain, which might have saved the braces from popping off like the bridge. All pure conjecture, of course!

...and of the spectrum?

The main air is ~110Hz, which suggests an overall low compliance box. More compliant top and back panels (less stiffness, less mass) would result in a main air resonance of around 100Hz. The top (T1,1)2 is at 205 with the mass of the bridge there, but because of the glue line failure, it won't be adding much stiffness. Glue the bridge on properly and it'll probably rise to 210-215Hz compared to a mobile top at ~190Hz with considerably lower mass. If the third peak is the T(1,1)3 (might be a cross dipole, but less likely) the back is at 220Hz, rather low for my tastes and the relative height of the peak suggests somewhat heavy. But maybe the lower bout back brace has popped, which might explain the rather low T(1,1)3. A bit of tapping around with your rubber tapping hammer should reveal any loose braces.

Anyway, that's what a spectrum like that would be suggesting to me if I had produced it in my normal way, but, of course, your technique might be quite different.

[Nick]

And the white dots, def. Dulux circa 1987, applied to a ceiling with a roller in Tammy's bedroom.

Is there no end to your talents Mr Gore? Psychic too now ?!

It's his hobby Jeremy, when the fair comes to town you'll find the "Amazing Gore-o" sitting in his pup tent, loose fitting clothing, a fancy hanky tied to his head and fingers full of bling hovering over his King Billy Pine ball.
Wouldn't have a clue what the wood is, I always come last in "Name that wood" games But for 30 bucks, looks like a good buy

[charangohabsburg]

I'd also be guessing Far East manufacturer, probably Japan, despite what the label says!

... I would say Far East manufacturer because of what the label says:

Manuel Ortez
Fabrica de Guitarras
ANO 1772
CADIZ ESPANA

While a Spanish label would rather be written like this:

Manuel Ortez
Fábrica de Guitarras
AÑO 1772
CÁDIZ ESPAÑA

While one may argue that the ´ and ~ might not have been used in capital letters (normally they get used) and the missing "á" in Fábrica being a simple typing mistake, one also should consider the real meaning of the word ano without "ñ"! (The spelling of "ñ" is "ni", not "n").

Still a nice score for 30$ !

[Kim]

Ovangkol?

+1

[Steve]

one also should consider the real meaning of the word ano without "ñ"! (The spelling of "ñ" is "ni", not "n").

I was thinking the same thing Markus, but thought that perhaps it was acceptable in capitals. I once made a similar mistake wishing a woman in my Spanish class a Happy New Ano - she replied that she appreciated the sentiment but politely declined my offer.

[charangohabsburg]

I once made a similar mistake wishing a woman in my Spanish class a Happy New Ano - she replied that she appreciated the sentiment but politely declined my offer.

[lauburu]

Agree with Marcus regarding the label. The absence of accents and the tildes are a bit of a giveaway but also I don't recall any Spanish instruments I've ever seen boasting about being made in a factory. They normally say something like Hecho en España
Miguel

[charangohabsburg]

[...] but also I don't recall any Spanish instruments I've ever seen boasting about being made in a factory. They normally say something like Hecho en España

This seems to be true for newer Spanish guitars, but not at all for older ones. The term Fábrica de Guitarras has been used in Spain throughout the whole 19th century (also José Ramírez I used this term on at least some of his guitars), until the end of WWII. The latest guitars bearing the term Fabrica de Guitarras on their labels I know of are from the manufacuturers Roca and Telésforo Julve, built/sold around the end of the sixties / early seventies.

Sources:

• The Vihuela de Mano and the Spanish Guitar, José L. Romanillos Vega & Marian Harris Winspear, 2002
• www.guitarra.artepulsado.com

[/size]

[Vaughan Gill]

Mine has real character............it's been around. I'm no great guitarist but a friend of mine is a 50 year professional veteran and he still maintains that my guitar has one of the best tones he's ever heard on a guitar. He loves getting his hand on it. Other notable guitarists have wanted to buy it......will never happen.

[Vaughan Gill]

I now have (2) two of these guitars in my possession.
One is a 1941 (a friends) and the other (mine) is a 1942 model as per the photograph.
If you do a browser search on Manuel Ortez - Cadez
You will find a guitarist playing a 1941 model.
I love playing my 73 year old guitar battered as it is, it has an
amazing tone. It does appear that these guitars are not mass produced
Japanese models made in 1972 as suggested in previous articles. (?)