Does size matter?

[nnickusa]

This is actually a serious question.

I was looking at my two this morning, and, while I like the general shape of the headstock, I think it looks a bit small in relation to the body/neck/etc. Also, showing to a couple guys, the first comment was "Small headstock, huh?" or like that...

So, does the size of the headstock have any impact on the way the guitar performs?

What I did with the one I'm working on is widen the head closer to the neck, and narrow the end just a bit. It'll end up around 8mm wider at the bottom and 5mm narrower at the top. I'd guess the mass of the thing will be pretty consistent with my others.

What will change is the string angle off the nut, with all the strings having a slightly straighter path to the tuners.

Thanks for any opinions....

[Nick]

I think a headstock adds to the overall mass of the guitar so can make a subtle difference to tone but I wouldn't have thought it would be that[/t] much if you are only talking few extra Millimeters here or there, maybe Trevor or one of the forum boffins could offer some quantifyable numbers on that one?
Personally I work more on the aesthetics of the thing, is it in proportion with the rest of the guitar, does it "look" right sitting on the end of the neck with the overall style of the guitar? I think, after a few years of building, that I've stumbled upon a shape I think can fit with any style of acoustic guitar I make, I merely scale it depending on the size of the guitar & now uke

[P Bill]

The Fender Jazz bass is my idea of perfect headstock /body balance.

[Trevor Gore]

....maybe Trevor or one of the forum boffins could offer some quantifyable numbers on that one?

I can't offer you numbers, I'm afraid, but mass in the headstock does make an audible difference and on some guitars it can be quite dramatic. I changed the chromed brass tuner buttons for ebony on a guitar once and the sound virtually disappeared until I put the brass ones back on. Never had a problem with heavy, but have had the above problem with light.

Basically you want a big mechanical impedance mismatch at that end of the string, so that more of the wave reflects back. Heavy does that for you.

[Nick]

Basically you want a big mechanical impedance mismatch at that end of the string, so that more of the wave reflects back. Heavy does that for you.

Thanks Trevor, I knew you'd have a 'proper' reason. Interesting experiment with the tuner buttons, you wouldn't think by looking at them that that much mass would make a difference but almost by accident you've proved it does! When you say sound was it a drop in the volume of the guitar or did the overall tone fall off?

[nnickusa]

I've swapped out the chrome buttons on the Grovers I'm going to use on this guitar for some Ziricote buttons, which are noticably lighter. I'll have a go with both when I get to that point, and see what the difference is to my ear....

Yeesh, so many variables......

[Trevor Gore]

When you say sound was it a drop in the volume of the guitar or did the overall tone fall off?

The tuners I used were Gotohs with Grover style "kidney bean" buttons, which I was swapping out for ebony ones, Schaller M6 style. As the other Nick said, these things weigh (and they're a long way up the neck). There was a drop in volume and the sound was noticeably "thinner". The guitar was a 14 fret, fairly skinny neck affair. Most of what I do these days is 12 fret and I haven't run into the problem anything like so dramatically. So one could hypothesise that a neck resonance may also have been part of the problem. I didn't chase it down in detail.

[Nick]

The tuners I used were Gotohs with Grover style "kidney bean" buttons, which I was swapping out for ebony ones, Schaller M6 style. As the other Nick said, these things weigh (and they're a long way up the neck). There was a drop in volume and the sound was noticeably "thinner". The guitar was a 14 fret, fairly skinny neck affair. Most of what I do these days is 12 fret and I haven't run into the problem anything like so dramatically. So one could hypothesise that a neck resonance may also have been part of the problem. I didn't chase it down in detail.

Thanks for sharing & certainly another aspect I will have to keep in mind to watch out for on future builds.

Yeesh, so many variables......

You ain't wrong Nick, it's worse than a golf swing!

[Paul B]

Basically you want a big mechanical impedance mismatch at that end of the string, so that more of the wave reflects back. Heavy does that for you.

I this the same as my thinking; The energy in the plucked string has to overcome the inertia of the headstock mass in order to lose much energy through the headstock, and once that mass is above a given amount, the energy will tend to stay in the string and give a greater return wave back towards the bridge end of the string?

Or do I have it ass about? I keep thinking about Les Paul's piece of railway track for some reason.

[liam_fnq]

The simple experiment to do is to clip a small G clamp onto the headstock and listen to the difference.


On asthetics, I find it much more difficult to get a pleasing headstock shape than I do body shape........

[Trevor Gore]

I this the same as my thinking; The energy in the plucked string has to overcome the inertia of the headstock mass in order to lose much energy through the headstock, and once that mass is above a given amount, the energy will tend to stay in the string and give a greater return wave back towards the bridge end of the string?

That's pretty right, Paul.

[Paul B]

Cool, thanks.

Not really down with the term 'impedance', know all about inertia tho

[Craig]

I like the Gotoh 510's with metal buttons . Enough weight to make it almost "neck heavy ".I've also fitted wooden buttons on them but changed back to metal . Seems the extra weight really does make a big difference at the anchoring point.
I'm also a fan of having the tuners pretty much in line with the strings . My reasoning is that this gives the string more flexiblity as the string's tensions can easily pass to and fro over the nut. Also more accurate tuning as the string doesn't get caught up at the nut ( the speaking and non speaking length can equalize ).

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I've done the same with 12 strings although had to go with ebony buttons as 12 metal ones just made the guitar Too neck heavy.

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The strings are never going to be in complete alignment because of the headstock angle ( 14 degree in my case ) but I do think having the tuners pretty much in line does make quite a difference

[simso]

Mass = sustain

The more weight in the headstock, the greater the area that is vibrating from the movement of the strings, the greater the vibrating area the greater the sustain.

[nnickusa]

Thanks for all the answers.

I thought the concept behind the acoustic guitar was to transfer as much as possible of the strings energy to the soundboard, creating the vibration which produces the sound we actually hear...Does a heavier(bigger, heavier tuners etc) headstock "project" more of the strings energy to the tail end of the strings? In effect does this help to isolate the vibrations transmissions to the soundboard?

I seriously gotta stop asking questions..... ....

Actually, no. Sorry, without questions I'd never learn a damn thing about putting these things together....thanks for your patience, all....

[Paul B]

Yeah Nick, it's all about vibration and dissipation of energy (Trev, correct me if I'm wrong). When you pluck a string you're imparting a certain amount of energy into it. That energy will try to leave the "system" by the easiest (most energy efficient) means possible (this is just physics, like water runs downhill). If you have a low mass headstock that can easily be made to vibrate by the the energy of the strings vibration, then you'll lose your string energy there (the headstock will vibrate too, which saps energy from the strings because they are driving it). But if you increase the mass of the headstock enough that it won't vibrate so much, or at all (because the strings don't have THAT much energy), then the easiest way for the strings to lose energy is through your guitar top, and that is just what it will do. Loudly and with increased sustain.

Which is just what a nice stiff, lightly braced top wants to see.

Or as Steve said in two words, Mass=sustain. But it depends on where the mass is.

[Trevor Gore]

When you pluck a string, a "half wave" sets off in each direction down the string from the pluck point to the string terminations (nut, fret or saddle). When the half wave hits the termination it is reflected back down the string and meets and interferes with the other half wave which has hit the other end and bounced back. The two half waves interfere to produce a standing wave, which is pretty much what you see as a string vibrates. How long the string vibrates for depends on the air resistance on the string as it moves (which acts as a damper) and how much wave energy is reflected from the ends. Some energy leaks into the soundboard to move it and create sound, but you don't want to loose energy at the other end of the string which will do little but shake the neck a bit and produce little or no sound.

Those who have done the course have seen the simulations and slo-mo films I show of this.

A large part of designing guitars is about designing to manage the energy you leak out of the string into the top (and preferably nowhere else). That's why the book and the course both address how vibrating strings "work" to drive a soundboard quite early in the piece, because if you don't understand that properly you stand little chance of designing a better guitar.

[Patrick Hanna]

There is another consideration in headstock size--comfortable spacing between tuning machines. I'm referring to comfort when tuning. It's amazing how a slightly closer spacing can make the buttons feel like they're getting in each other's way as you turn one. This, of course would be more a function of headstock length and overall shape rather than width. I think overall balance of the instrument's weight would be a consideration for some players. Some people just don't like an instrument that's too neck-heavy. I have no doubt that all this mass/volume/sustain/tone quality is true, too, but I would personally be clueless how to plan for it, so I can't comment on that part.