Size 5 terz info wanted

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:13 pm

I'm planning on building a size 5 terz guitar next. I've got basic body dimensions, but I'm looking for a body tracing if one is available, as well as bracing info. I presume it would need just one tone bar and everything very light.

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:12 am

Hi Allen... I have a mate with a size 5 Martin 18 fret, I'm sure she said it was a terz (not that I have a clue what a terz is). She is sending me some stuff next week and it wouldnâ€™t be a problem to have her include a tracing of the body. Iâ€™m not sure she would be much help with the bracing other than a basic non-technical description of what she could see with a light and mirror.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:16 am

That would be great James. I've found a few build blogs on them and it look sto be a standard X-brace pattern. Getting an idea of width and hight of bracing would be all I'd need as a starting point.

ozziebluesman · Post by **ozziebluesman** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:07 pm

G'day Allen,

Have seen this plan?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3-4-size-GUITAR- ... m153.l1262

Cheers

Alan

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:12 pm

Yes, I've seen that plan before, and I've got 4 of Scott's Plans, and while they are good to a point, they all seem to suffer from being way over built. They are a starting point but I've got the dimensions for the upper and lower bout widths, the total depth, scale length. What I'm looking for is the depth the neck, body tracing and I'm thinking that 1/4" bracing is probably where I'll be going with this.

Thanks for looking though Alan.

My wood has just shown up from Don Williams and I've got 3 fabulous sets for a size 5 that I can't wait to hook into.

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:56 am

Hi Allenâ€¦ I got an email from the Latin Pocket Rocket (Beth), she has posted me a tracing with some notes so if you send me your address Iâ€™ll pass it on as soon as I get it. I had to give her a crash course in guitar terminology but she seems to have got the general idea (didnâ€™t go as deep as compensated saddles). Her email included a bit of a description of the bracing and some dimensions that Iâ€™ve pasted below. I hope we got what you need, sheâ€™s off to Costa Rica doing a turtle project from next week for 4 months, so a long wait if we missed something. She has to estimate the size of all kinds of marine critters and their body parts, so I would back her guesses. I may be able to get in one more email before she goes so let me know if there is anything else you need to know.

Have fun

Martin 5 16 GT
Body sizes
407mm long
Top widest part 210mm
Narrowest part 175mm
Bottom widest part 286mm
98mm deep at the bottom
83mm deep where the neck joins

The saddle has been put on crooked but it is 543mm from inside the nut to the inside the middle of the saddle (I only had a 300mm ruler so may be a mm or two off)
The hole is 80mm
The bridge is 140mm long and 24mm wide

Iâ€™ve made some notes about the bracing on the tracing of the top, but I couldnâ€™t see shit even with a torch and a mirror stuck to a stick. I posted it Friday afternoon. It has 4 braces that go across the back, they are about 5 or 6mm wide and 12 or 13mm high. The top has one that goes across above the hole that looks the same as the ones on the back. There are two big ones that cross over below the hole, they seem to be about 6mm wide but are a lot more curved (the ones on the top are like the pointy end of an egg and the ones on the back are like the blunt end). They also seem to be higher where they cross than they are further along, about 12mm or 13mm where they cross and about 7mm 60mm further down towards the widest part then they get higher again maybe 10mm or 11mm, then they thin right to nothing at the end where they hit the side (hope that makes sense lovely, there is a sketch on hardcopy but all a bit of a guess). There are two very small braces on either side of the hole, only a few mm high. It looks like there is one each side on an angle below the narrow part of the body then two longer ones on an angle across near the bottom (I couldnâ€™t see any of these well enough to guess at sizes). The idiot yank I got it from said he had taken it to a special guitar joint and had the bracing reshaped to make it sound better (which is probably why it now has a rattle), so the bracing may not be original (but she is still my sweet little baby and better company than most men).

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:17 am

Thanks very much James. Looks like there is enough info there to really make a go of it. I'll PM you my address.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:48 pm

I'm putting finish on my last 2 projects and I'm now starting to plan out how this guitar is going to look.

I've got some very figured Sapele for the back and sides. Planing on using a herringbone purfling and using Cheesewood for the bindings. Going to get a slotted head stock with chrome/pearoid tuners. The fret board and bridge are going to be Minneritchi which is nice and dark.

Now to the top. I've got several choices, and if anyone has some insight on an appropriate choice for a small guitar, I'd like your input. On the shelf I've got Engelman Spruce, Western Red Cedar, Australian Red Cedar and finally some Red Spruce that is in the mail from WA.

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:12 pm

Being such a small guitar it's a perfect opportunity to use anything you've got that's not so stiff.

In fact a really stiff top may not be the way to go with such a small guitar.

Bob

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:41 pm

Just got home from a BBQ where a guy was playing a Qld maple WRC parlor. So... I think you should use Engelman

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:48 pm

Right-oh James. Mahogany it is.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Allen wrote:Right-oh James. Mahogany it is.

Yeah, I think Tim has some Huon Pine that will work nicely.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:32 pm

I ended up getting the Scott Antes plans for a comparison to the tracing James sent to me. They are very close but the bracing pattern in the plans is different than the pattern that James sent. Not a big deal as I will be modifying it anyway.

I do have a couple of questions though. The plans don't show the top having a radius built in it. Anyone have experience with such a small instrument and noticed whether there is a domed top. Also, has anyone tried building a domed top and glueing to rims that haven't been sanded in the radius dish?

The body is just 16" long and the lower bout is 11 1/2".

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:03 pm

From memory I think the girls Martin had a flat top, but I could be wrong. If it did have a radius it must have been very slight because I didn't notice it.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun May 04, 2008 5:43 pm

Well, I've made some progress on the size 5 that is worth posting some pictures of, so here it is so far.

The back and sides are Brain Sapele, The top is Western Red Cedar.

Braces on back are Engelman Spruce. 1/4" x 1/2".

Braces on top are Western Red Cedar and started out at 1/4" x 1/2".

I managed to get the back on today and hope to get the binding well under way tomorrow, but I gave myself a really good slice on my finger with a chisel, so it might slow me down some. It probably needs stitches, but if I go to Cairns Base I'm more likely to have an arm amputated.

Sure makes typing difficult.

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:02 pm

You could tack it together with super glue and avoid running to doctor death at the Base

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:11 pm

I was thinking that, but it was holding bandages on it while the wife was trying to get a dressing on it. If I let her near the CA I might end up with both hands glued together, and then I'd have no way to hold a beer.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:06 pm

In circumstances like this Allen you need to think laterally. Have your wife glue your injured hand to a 10oz glass, this will seal the wound and at the same time address your concern about holding a beer. You could also quite possibly reap some saving by drinking king browns for a while.

PS, the trez is looking great, hope the digit knits quick and clean.

Cheers

Kim

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun May 11, 2008 5:42 pm

More progress pictures of this little beauty. The more that I work on it, the more I'm falling in love with it. Just a wash coat of shellac on it to bring out the grain. It's going to be spectacular under a finish.

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:13 pm

Looks sensational Allen.

That Sapele is really going to jump under a finish.

Bob

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Sun May 11, 2008 6:34 pm

Looking good Allen... are you going to have a slotted head on it??

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon May 12, 2008 5:38 am

Yes, slotted headstock. Chrome and pearloid tuners. Going to have a very traditional look.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:31 am

Looks great Allen can't wait to see the 3D Sapele under a finish and to get a sound report.

Cheers

Kim

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:22 pm

Allen,

It's looking really great. Small guitar just have that certain something. Looks like you'll be first to the post with the adjustable neck!!

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:29 pm

Gorgeous. Simply gorgeous.

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Size 5 terz info wanted

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