Scarf Joint - Planer Sled

[demonx]

Just made this little jigga today.

Works quite nicely.



First pass I tried holding it by hand and the neck blank vibrated around a bit in the jig

Second attempt I clamped it with a quick grip. This clamp moved slightly.

Third attempt I used a more reliable clamp and the slide worked a treat. Much better than the jig I've been using in the past.

[demonx]

I just realised I posted this in the wrong section - if a mod could move it please. Sorry.

[woodrat]

Nice idea Allan....I wont actually use it as I am a bit of a hand plane junkie and use my BS to make the cut and my trusty planes to true the surface...but its a nice idea!

John

[demonx]

Nice idea Allan....I wont actually use it as I am a bit of a hand plane junkie and use my BS to make the cut and my trusty planes to true the surface...but its a nice idea!

John

I also make the initial cut with a bandsaw.

I like to use a hand plane on some jobs, but with a critical joint like this - I'd rather use the jointer.

[Allen]

You gotta get a better bandsaw and blade. Mine comes off the saw ready to glue. Did 4 today in about 5 minutes total from board to clamped up.

[demonx]

You gotta get a better bandsaw and blade. Mine comes off the saw ready to glue. Did 4 today in about 5 minutes total from board to clamped up.

My bandsaw blade is probably only a month old! I'd never trust a joint fresh off a blade. I'd rather plane them every time.

[kiwigeo]

You gotta get a better bandsaw and blade. Mine comes off the saw ready to glue. Did 4 today in about 5 minutes total from board to clamped up.

My bandsaw blade is probably only a month old! I'd never trust a joint fresh off a blade. I'd rather plane them every time.

I do mine on the table saw using a jig.....usually only need a few swipes with the plane and they get glued up. Ive done them on the bandsaw as well and have never needed to do much finishing with a plane to get a good joint.

[demonx]

I do mine on the table saw using a jig.....usually only need a few swipes with the plane and they get glued up. Ive done them on the bandsaw as well and have never needed to do much finishing with a plane to get a good joint.

I used to use a jig for my mitre saw and had similar results, looked like it was good to go fresh off the blade - but I still always ran a couple passes over the planer to be safe. I've gone back to running it through the bandsaw following a greylead line. Less messing around.

[Allen]

Please forgive me for taking away from your post. The jig is well thought out and will be of use to many that have a jointer but not a well set up saw. Be that a table saw or bandsaw.

I use a carbide tipped blade that makes a cut that looks like it went through the drum sander. Hot hide glue and a couple of clamps. Doesn't get much easier than that.

[MBP]

Please forgive me for taking away from your post. The jig is well thought out and will be of use to many that have a jointer but not a well set up saw. Be that a table saw or bandsaw.

I use a carbide tipped blade that makes a cut that looks like it went through the drum sander. Hot hide glue and a couple of clamps. Doesn't get much easier than that.

I have seen that in one of your videos on YouTube. Is that your saw and workshop?

Most table saws wouldn't be able to make a big enough cut for guitar necks in one go.

[simso]

My table saw is not big enough to do it in one cut.

The bandsaw is, but one thing im not good at is achieving a good bandsaw cut. Ive got to hand plane it for a nice finish

[Kim]

You gotta get a better bandsaw and blade. Mine comes off the saw ready to glue. Did 4 today in about 5 minutes total from board to clamped up.

My bandsaw blade is probably only a month old! I'd never trust a joint fresh off a blade. I'd rather plane them every time.

Its not so much to with with the blade as it is about the quality of saw, its guides and how it is set up. A well balance band or table saw gives amazing results and that kind of accuracy is most easily achieved from old iron with the weight and structure to deliver vibration free operation, that, a good set of guides, a quality blade suited to the task at hand and a careful set up delivers unbelievable results and I would trust this over the finish that a straight cut jointer head could deliver any day, regardless of how sharp the knives and how slowly feed rate had been. I know that both methods, if done well are good enough, but I still can't help but use a block plane to finish off anyhow simply because of how it sounds and feels and how the finish feels from a finely tuned quality hand plane...unsurpassable.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

Please forgive me for taking away from your post. The jig is well thought out and will be of use to many that have a jointer but not a well set up saw. Be that a table saw or bandsaw.

I use a carbide tipped blade that makes a cut that looks like it went through the drum sander. Hot hide glue and a couple of clamps. Doesn't get much easier than that.

I have seen that in one of your videos on YouTube. Is that your saw and workshop?

Most table saws wouldn't be able to make a big enough cut for guitar necks in one go.

My 10" Jet table saw handles the cut no problems and its a pretty average saw.

[simso]

Im lost just a bit anyway, why does it matter whether the top of the neck is going to be perfectly square, unless this is like prep work for a peghead overlay

[kiwigeo]

Im lost just a bit anyway, why does it matter whether the top of the neck is going to be perfectly square, unless this is like prep work for a peghead overlay

Of prime importance is that the two glue surfaces are flat. Having the cut square is less critical but for me it makes glue up alot easier....I sit the neck and headstock on edge on a flat surface and clamp to same for glue up. If the cut isn't square it just wont work.

[demonx]

Im lost just a bit anyway, why does it matter whether the top of the neck is going to be perfectly square, unless this is like prep work for a peghead overlay

Theres two surfaces that can be used in scarf joints, some people (old school) laminate underneath, a more modern version laminates on top. Acoustic builders tend to use the older style.

I laminate on top, hense the need for a perfect surface.

If it's not square, then the headstock will not be square. I pre cut my headstock, thickness it, pre shape it and drill the machine head holes, then glue it to this planed surface

[demonx]

The 3,4,11 & 12 pics in this should help explain what I mean:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4484

[simso]

Okay, understand, when I make a neck, I use the scarf cut as the upper surface that will sit under any peghead overlay, Im really not worried about the top side as Ive got to plane that to shape after ive put the head on, this is why I couldnt understand the need for perfection as sort by a jointer of the top side prior to glue up.

[simso]

Of prime importance is that the two glue surfaces are flat. Having the cut square is less critical but for me it makes glue up alot easier....I sit the neck and headstock on edge on a flat surface and clamp to same for glue up. If the cut isn't square it just wont work.

The confusion is cleared, he uses the scarf cut as the clamping surface, I dont do mine that way, but now it makes sense

[Phil Mailloux]

I do my angled headstocks,the same way Demonx, but the scary way, without the jig I might just build me one like this, be better not to push my luck too much

Please forgive me for taking away from your post. The jig is well thought out and will be of use to many that have a jointer but not a well set up saw. Be that a table saw or bandsaw.

I use a carbide tipped blade that makes a cut that looks like it went through the drum sander. Hot hide glue and a couple of clamps. Doesn't get much easier than that.

Do you have a link to those bandsaw blades, the ones I usually get are shyte, or maybe its just the operator that's shyte at setting up the machine

[Allen]

The saw in the video is one of Micheal's. He's the one that put me on to these blades.

I've got a 20" Jet saw. Upgraded the crappy guides to some really good ones and use a Lenox blade.. Liam got a blade for his 14" saw after using mine and was amazed at the difference.

You can get the blades at lots of places. Just gotta know what you are looking for.

These blades are not cheap. But they will last years. You can cut just about anything that you would dare push through the saw. Cuts Gidgee like it was butter. The one thing that is struggles with oddly is Spanish Cedar and Palonia. Those long stringy fibres are a lot tougher than you would think. But then again, my table saw struggles cutting them as well.

[rocket]

I don't have a table saw or a jointer, just the type with no motor, you push it to make it go
Rod.

[lauburu]

I also bought a TCT tipped blade after seeing Allen's bandsaw at work. A huge improvement in ease of cutting, smoothness of cut surface etc. Operator still needs an upgrade but well worth the extra cost.
Miguel

[MBP]

Its not so much to with with the blade as it is about the quality of saw, its guides and how it is set up. A well balance band or table saw gives amazing results and that kind of accuracy is most easily achieved from old iron with the weight and structure to deliver vibration free operation, that, a good set of guides, a quality blade suited to the task at hand and a careful set up delivers unbelievable results and I would trust this over the finish that a straight cut jointer head could deliver any day, regardless of how sharp the knives and how slowly feed rate had been. I know that both methods, if done well are good enough, but I still can't help but use a block plane to finish off anyhow simply because of how it sounds and feels and how the finish feels from a finely tuned quality hand plane...unsurpassable.

Cheers

Kim

Its nice to think all the big old machines are great but a lot of them are junk. It doesnt matter how you get there so long as it is all square. If Allan is getting it right with the jointer good on him. What does it matter how it sounds doing it?

The saw in the video is one of Micheal's. He's the one that put me on to these blades.

I've got a 20" Jet saw. Upgraded the crappy guides to some really good ones and use a Lenox blade.. Liam got a blade for his 14" saw after using mine and was amazed at the difference.

You can get the blades at lots of places. Just gotta know what you are looking for.

These blades are not cheap. But they will last years. You can cut just about anything that you would dare push through the saw. Cuts Gidgee like it was butter. The one thing that is struggles with oddly is Spanish Cedar and Palonia. Those long stringy fibres are a lot tougher than you would think. But then again, my table saw struggles cutting them as well.

He has a great set up. Do you check the cut with a straight edge before gluing?

[demonx]

Do you check the cut with a straight edge before gluing?

That is something I always do. Vertical, horizontal and diagnal.

I was doing this joint for a while using the linisher, but holding it at the exact angle was hit and miss, just like dragging it across the jointer without a sled is hit and miss. They look great till you put a straight edge on them and see a bit of sunlight sneaking through!

I agree with your comment though - it really doesnt matter HOW it gets done as each person is going to have their own preference, as long as it's done and the joint is perfect.