Truss Rods

[MBP]

Hi All,

What are your thoughts behind truss rods, which are good which are crap and why?
Who makes their own?

I have my mind set but it isnt something that I have found discussed on here before.

[simso]

We remanufacture others truss rods during repairs, have seen designs from simplistic to what the hell

Best well thought designs are dual action, but they are a bit large in general, simplistic is like a fender, even more simplistic is a hardwood insert

[kiwigeo]

LMI dual action truss rods are what I use......have had no problem with them.

[woodrat]

My dual action ones come from Allied lutherie....simple and effective...I think that they are the same as the LMI ones. I have not yet tried to manufacture my own. I would like to try the one that is in the Gore/Gilet book....I have not got around to it yet...I am still implementing/getting my head around most of the other stuff therein....

John

[MBP]

John, What style of rod is in the Gilet/Gore book?

The LMII and Allied ones seem to be the standard. I dont really see the need for a dual action rod if the neck is made correctly but it is an added bonus.

Simso What have you found to be the most problematic of the rods?

[Clancy]

I made the single action gilet version (steel rod bent back in two, brass block & grub screw) and it works a treat. Bloody needed to on the looong irish bouzouki neck it went into!

That said, I've been installing the allied dual action ones since then.
They're just so simple to install & so well made!

[woodrat]

MBP...There are two in the book....a single and a dual action design. I have found that it is easier to buy them than to go to the trouble of making them. I might have a go for the experience at some point but it is low on the to do list as there are so many other things on it lutherie wise....
...as for whether you need dual action....I have only needed to help the strings add more relief twice...both on necks that I had put CF into and were probably too stiff because of that...but I still like to use the DA truss rod because it is a simple and elegant design....

John

[MBP]

I made the single action gilet version (steel rod bent back in two, brass block & grub screw) and it works a treat. Bloody needed to on the looong irish bouzouki neck it went into!

That said, I've been installing the allied dual action ones since then.
They're just so simple to install & so well made!

The rod bent in two is what I am using. I am making some now. I believe it's called the Lewis rod after bill Lewis the inventor.

Just wondering if anyone builds a very slight up bow in their necks?

[Nick]

I use Allied dual action for Acoustics and Stewmacs dual action with some CF for basses (only because I have several of the long rods still in my stocks, I will switch to Allied once they're depleted)
Archtops & electric necks I make my own single action that sit in a curved slot.

I always aim for a dead straight neck, the customer can add some relief if they prefer that.

[MBP]

Nick I actually meant when building the neck. Not just the setup.


John said he had two necks that need the dual action to give a bit of relief. Why don't people build a slight curve up in their necks instead of relying on the strings to do the work. As John has said the stiffer necks will need it. Thoughts

[kiwigeo]

Nick I actually meant when building the neck. Not just the setup.


John said he had two necks that need the dual action to give a bit of relief. Why don't people build a slight curve up in their necks instead of relying on the strings to do the work. As John has said the stiffer necks will need it. Thoughts

You could build relief into the neck during construction but why rely on this crude method of introducing neck relief when a much easier way of doing it can be achieved by using a double acting truss rod?

[Nick]

Nick I actually meant when building the neck. Not just the setup.

Yeah I was meaning the build too, just didn't word it correctly sorry Ro, to me, start with a straight neck & setup becomes a piece of cake (I don't use relief in setup phase either). I always keep everthing flat as I possibly can during the build phase, as Martin mentioned, trying to build the relief into the neck at time of manufacture seems abit to easy for things to go wrong to me. Your mathematics would have to be spot on I would imagine & how would you level the frets if you have to? Start with everything flat & straight & the worlds your oyster, you can tweak or just leave it depending on your preferences, that's my approach anyway.

[kiwigeo]

Nick I actually meant when building the neck. Not just the setup.

Yeah I was meaning the build too, just didn't word it correctly sorry Ro, to me, start with a straight neck & setup becomes a piece of cake (I don't use relief in setup phase either). I always keep everthing flat as I possibly can during the build phase, as Martin mentioned, trying to build the relief into the neck at time of manufacture seems abit to easy for things to go wrong to me. Your mathematics would have to be spot on I would imagine & how would you level the frets if you have to? Start with everything flat & straight & the worlds your oyster, you can tweak or just leave it depending on your preferences, that's my approach anyway.

Thats pretty much the approach I take to neck relief.

[MBP]

Quite a few people believe that the extra mass of the double acting rods (compared to the 1920's gibson style) affect the sound of the guitar more then needed. If you built some relief in you could then use the rod to straighten the neck, do the fret work. By building in a tiny bit of relief, then the added string pull there is no need for a two way. Even without the built in relief there is usually no need for a two way rod unless the neck is super stiff like carbon reinforced necks.

I build flat but this is something I seen brought up on another forum and wanted to here other builders thoughts.

ee

You could build relief into the neck during construction but why rely on this crude method of introducing neck relief when a much easier way of doing it can be achieved by using a double acting truss rod?

[kiwigeo]

Quite a few people believe that the extra mass of the double acting rods (compared to the 1920's gibson style) affect the sound of the guitar more then needed.

I would counter by saying that dialing tension into a neck with a truss can enhance sustain of the instrument.....its one reason many builders are using truss rods on classicals.

For me the bottom line is....the extra cost of a double acting rod versus single acting is minimal and IMHO worth paying to have the full flexibility in adjustment direction.

[auscab]

Can someone explain to me what the double acting rod’s second act is ?
If a normal single rod ,with an anchor up near the nut and an adjustment nut just in from the sound hole is used to stop the string tension pulling the neck to far, giving adjustability to the relief . What does the double acting one do? Push the neck in to relief if it does not want to go ? and how when there is only one nut.

I just used the single type that I made up on my 1 so far build , and for a while did not think the strings were going to pull the neck enough for good relief.

[jeffhigh]

With a Gibson style truss rod , you can put a little tension on the rod, to give a slight hump on the front surface of the neck, re-level this surface then install the fretboard.
This gives you a little margin to slacken off the trussrod if your neck needs relief.
You cant really do this with a single action dual rod because it is not properly restrained till the fretboard is installed

[Phil Mailloux]

I use welded end lmii single action rods, they're cheap and work well. I see no use of a double action rod. Seems to me if your neck is goingto backbow that much, start anew. I've also used compression rods on occasion when doing custom scale instrument where my usual rods wouldnt fit

[jeffhigh]

Yeah backbow on a bass should never happen.
I just finished a nylon string guitar though that stayed dead straight until I put in some relief with the double action rod(which had probably made the neck so stiff in the first place)

[Nick]

Quite a few people believe that the extra mass of the double acting rods (compared to the 1920's gibson style) affect the sound of the guitar more then needed.

Hmmmm, another one of those things that I reckon could only be picked up by a Spectrum analysis. I could be wrong but I very much doubt that anybody's ears are that finely tuned that they could do a blind test & tell if a neck's carrying a few extra grams of metal work buried within it over another. Double acting rods have been used for a number of years now & I can't see their popularity declining because they have altered the sound of an acoustic or electric detrimentally.
Again I think it comes down to personal choice, those of us that like using the single action rod will continue to use them & those of us that use Double Action will happily continue using them. I can't help but suspect those that use the 'extra mass' scenario have always used single action & Double action rods are the work of the devil You can make anything sound terrible with the right amount of spin.