bindings.....

[Parlourman]

Hi,

I'm looking ahead to when I get to machine the bindings, and wondering about the best way to do it.

Naively I assumed i could run my Makita trim router (with recently purchased stewmac router bearing set) around the back and front in about 5 mins and then settle down for a cup of tea. . . . . . . . i'm realising now that may not be the case.

I have made radius dishes of 15' back/28' front and I'm wondering how these radiuses will affect the 'squareness' of the router as it it sits (assuming that its best to keep the cut true to the sides, as opposed to back or front?).

Either way - i'm realising that it may not be as simple as I had hoped/thought/expected (!)

I'd be interested to get your opinions. . . . . . . . . I realise that, for now, it's all take take take as regards information, i'm hoping one day soon i'll have something to give back.

In the mean time: on this theme, I have one of these in my workshop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmad-5JIqBc surely there's a way to get this jigged up for bindings? i can't think of it - but that doesn't mean there isn't! Does anyone have one/use one?

Thanks All

ParlourMan

[kiwigeo]

The important thing to be aware of when routing binding channels is where the base of the router/lam trimmer is going to be registering off. If the top of the guitar is flat then registering off the top will work. This is usually not the case as most tops are domed to some degree. In this case you have two options:

1. Register off the side using a jig that attaches to your router/trimmer. This is the method I currently use and here's the jig I use: http://www.luthiertool.com/binding%20Po ... Cable.html You can make your own version of this jig....there are plans in the back of Jim Williams book on guitar making.
2. Mount the router in a Fleischman style jig that holds the router vertical in space without having to register on the guitar body. http://home.comcast.net/~kathymatsushit ... trjig.html I have one of these jigs but don't use it that much, preferring to use the luthier tools jig above.

Useful tips for cutting binding channels:

1. stiffen up spruce tops with a coat of shellac around the rim to minimise tear out.
2. be aware of cutter rotation, router direction and grain direction at different points of the top/back. I plan my cuts and note direction in pencil on top and back before starting the cuts. Be aware that a router will behave differently when doing a normal cut and when doing a climbing cut....once you've been thrown across your workshop by a router you'll quickly learn about this one! http://www.leevalley.com/en/shopping/te ... px?p=56809
3. running around with a hand gramil ( I use a Schneider) before doing the cuts with the router also helps minimise tear out and make for a clean channel.

[auscab]

Stephen , with your inverted router, can you move the arm over the top out of the way? Or is there enough room to fit a jig and a guitar body ?

I built one of these for my inverted router and held the body freehand , side up against the fence. I used a down cut spiral bit and it went well. I just had to hold it level as I moved the body around which was not hard , any other accidental movement just meant the cutter moved away from the work so there was no problem of cutting away to much wood.

It’s much the same as the Kinkade set up, from his book. but with a taller fence.

[woodrat]

Hi PM....I use the same set up as the link on Martins post....its very nicely made and is easy to use with a trimmer rather than a router...

Rob...nice set up Kinkade style...I used a similar set up for a while too...it works well and if PMan can tke the OHead arm off should be able to do that too...

...Rob, whats with the neck picture at the end of your post? why are you cutting into the neck from the bottom side? Just intrigued...that all....

Parlourman....I looked at the Onsrud video...very impressive machine....I want one !...but I dont know what I would do with it!....

John

[auscab]

John, I drilled two slots in the fence of that jig so it could be adjusted for the horizontal depth of cut.
I did think at the time of building it "funny how it looks like a neck"

In the picture above it you can’t see the slots because I have two leather washers covering them.

Two coach screws {the heads housed in the flat piece of Walnut held down with three screws} pass through the slots and the two Elm handles twisted clockwise clamp the fence down. This whole set up is on a piece of veneered chipboard that locates to the top of my router table with four cleats .

[woodrat]

Sorry Rob, I thought that you had a new neck attachment system!...



Parlourman.....is your Onsrud pin router the same as in the YouTube vid....I was impressed by it indeed, what a machine!


John

[Parlourman]

Hi all - thanks for the advice.

John - Yes, the Onsrud is the same as the video. It's a great machine, but i must confess, completely under-utilised. I use it for reproduction of curves from templates (for chairs, bartops etc), my colleague uses it for signs. In the video the first piece he's working on is, as you'll have noticed, an electric guitar - i'm sure it would be great for that.. . . . . . one day perhaps!

As regards bindings, I'm still wracking my brain on how I could use it. I could sit the guitar on the radius dish, and then drop the pin around the contour, but there would be no means of adjusting/changing the height of the cut as I go round. .. . . . I suppose it would suit copying bridges from templates . . . . and maybe necks? . . . . . . . maybe I should ditch the parlour build and make a Strat!!

Parlourman

[woodrat]

Hi PM...(we use first names here if you would like to give us yours. ) I think that Rob's idea is a good one if you can take the O/Head arm off the machine and you can make up a guide like he has in the pictures above. It comes from th Jonathan Kinkade book...I have used it and it is a good simple set up. It could be adapted...otherwise use a router table.
I see that there is a version of that machine that has a much smaller Porter Cable router on it instead of the 10HP beast in the video....great machine...

Regards

John

[Parlourman]

Thanks John - I think it'll be job getting the arm off - I'll look tomorrow - there may be enough clearance as it is . . . . . . . .

Thanks for your input.

Steve (!)

[Parlourman]

and thanks Rob - I'm definitely going to try that system if I can fit it in.

Steve

[Lillian]

Steve, if you don't want to mess with getting the arm off your beast of a pin router, your trim router will work. This is what I knocked up for mine.

[woodrat]

Hi Steve....Yes you may be able to do it with out taking the arm off. I think you would need a minimum of ~120mm clearance though....perhaps a tad less ...

....I liked your blog...I have one cooking but I have to get back to it...its only just started. I will document my 2 BRW builds with it...

Cheers

John

[Parlourman]

.......taking the arm off the overhead router was not a goer....may have been, but the effort/reward ratio was not. . . . plus I can't tie it up as I have some curved work coming up. . . I went down a well trod path it seems and lifted an idea from stewmac/others and made a jig up to hold the trim router. . . nothing groundbreaking I know, but here we are:

[Parlourman]

......blimey - those photos were big - sorry 'bout that!

[woodrat]

Good One Steve.... ...after all we're only interested in getting the job done right! Hope yr guitar goes well!

...Interestingly over in the jigs section Phil in his post put a pic of his compound radius sanding setup and he has one of those cool Onsrud inverted pin routers in the pic in his workshop....sweet machine.

John

[joolstacho]

Just in case anyone may be thinking of making one like Lillian's, (which is a beaut'), I think you could get one together pretty cheaply and very easily using an old photographic enlarger.
Since digital, there's a million discarded photographic darkroom enlargers out there, I picked up 2 from charity shops for a total of $12.
You have a mounting plate for the enlarger head that moves up and down in a channel or on parallel rods. Usually adjusted up and down by a friction wheel of some kind. Just slacken off the friction and suspend the headplate (on which your trimmer is mounted) between springs that you could adjust to ensure the right amount of down pressure for a guide running on the top surface. Make sense? -I haven't made mine yet, (but it's gotta work!) Enlargers are nice precision built things.
-Jools

[woodrat]

cool Jools...can we have a pic?

[Lillian]

Jools, an enlarger would work great.

[joolstacho]

As I said, I haven't actually got around to building mine yet, but hopefully the pic should tell a thousand words.
Note that I've removed the friction wheel (it would be just above the plastic clamp) that makes the 'head' (the stikky out bit in front) rise and fall,- in prep for suspending it on adjustable springs.
So, mount trimmer and rig up guides, pretty well that's it ain't it?
That clamp arrangement towards the top could be used as the top spring mount, -adjustable because it moves up and down
-Jools