Kasha Bracing pattern

[Graham Long]

Hi,
I'm just wondering if anyone has used the Kasha Bracing pattern??
I'm looking at building a Baritone Uke with that bracing
Cheers
Graham

[Allen]

First up you need to ask yourself why?

If you've built this instrument in a more conventional manner and find something lacking, then I'd say go for it. But if it's your first and just on a whim because you think it looks cool, then nothing anyone says is going to dissuade you from giving it a go.

I know of only one notable builder who uses this bracing pattern, and countless others who don't and more importantly won't.

[56nortondomy]

Hi Graham, i'm currently building a Kasha style guitar. It's my first Kasha a bit of work involved. Hope the photos help. Wayne

[nnickusa]

Looks much more involved than other methods. Does this pattern add more weight to the top and back?

Allen: Why won't some builders use this technique? Do they find it lacking in some repesct, or just that it's more work for little or no gain?

[56nortondomy]

I'm not sure of the benefits of this bracing system, it's an ordered guitar and the guy is pretty keen on having a Kasha. The top is actually very light considering all the braces on it, it's made from Italian alpine spruce. The back has a bit more weight in it, it's made from Padauk with q/land maple braces. Wayne

[kiwigeo]

Kasha's bracing was pretty out there when it appeared on the scene. To my knowledge its benefits were not 100% proven and Kasha had problems getting it accepted by mainstream luthiers. Richard Schneider was one of Kasha's fans and incorporated the bracing in some of his instruments.

[J.F. Custom]

Hi Graham.

I've not built a Baritone in the style, however I have built a Tenor Ukulele in Kasha.

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I'm not sure what the question is though or if there was anything more specific?


With respect to Allens comments -

I know of only one notable builder who uses this bracing pattern, and countless others who don't and more importantly won't.

I believe he is referring to Eric Devine of Devine Guitars -

http://www.devineguitars.com/

though probably equally notable would be Hana-Lima, known for their plans and building school, but building often in the Kasha style as well. I stand to be corrected by him though.

The principle of the design style is respectable - to increase the 'active' area of the soundboard and distribute the load over a wide area, evenly. There are many ways of achieving this, indeed you could even see 'Falcate" bracing of Trevor Gore's as a variation of this, at least in principle and superficially - though far more involved and considered as a whole and complete design.

I would not be preaching it as a "superior" bracing scheme to the more common bracing methods found on ukuleles, but I would not write it off either. Some great sounding ukes I have heard have had very rudimentary bracing indeed, however they often suffer from short life spans as a result. I can't comment as an authority on the subject though, only having made one in the Kasha style, but I currently have another in the making.

To me, it has more to do with bringing the most out of the specific piece of timber you have in hand, by whichever method of bracing you choose and meeting your targeted objectives in tone, projection etc. All bracing methods require a fine balance between achieving sufficient support, whilst creating a responsive instrument. I think most bracing styles when done well can attain excellent results.

Hope it helps and good luck.

Jeremy.

[Allen]

Yes, Eric is the only person whom I know of that uses this bracing design and manages to find people to pay him.

Personally, I believe it has more to do with his instruments being exquisitely crafted with really outstanding wood a with attention to detail up there with the very best. Also just being different to the mainstream and in Hawaii would also help with his sales.

As well, I'm sure that he's built enough of them by now to have worked the system out to a point where they sound pretty darn good too......but it's one hell of a lot of work, and without a heap of knowledge about what you are doing, and all the deflection testing etc. required to figure out what's happening with that top, where are you? Pretty much just a shot in the dark.

Just think about all those braces. Are they there for the mass, or to add stiffness, or in the case of some, obviously a combination of both? How in the world would you be able to make any type of informed guess on the voicing of the top without having built dozens of the same instrument?

When it comes to a ukulele buyer of a high end instrument, there are those who want that "Hawaiian" sound of the hardwood top and minimal bracing. And a new breed of player that uses the uke more like a guitar and is looking for a more refined type of sound you get from spruce or cedar and a classical style fan bracing. Between those two camps there is almost infinite possibilities with proven track records.

And with everything in life there is the fringe group who want something just because it's different. There will always be a market to cater to people out there.

My point initially was "why are you pursuing this bracing pattern"? If you are a hobby builder and just want to try something out cause it looks cool, then it's rather pointless asking if anyone has done it because obviously some have. They will all tell you it was great. Perhaps it is, but is it the sound you are looking for? And no matter what, we all know that no matter what is said, your going to do it anyway just to find out yourself. Nothing wrong with that at all.

If on the other hand, your not a hobibest and you've got a client that wants one, then the question is a very valid one. If you've never built a instrument in this size and with this bracing pattern, then how confident are you of pulling it off? Only you can answer that question.

I know what my answer would be.

[J.F. Custom]

Eric would have to be the largest/most prolific maker in the style I would think. I tend to agree with your comments as to the appeal of his work, but he gets a fair penny for them so good luck to him.

I note too Allen construction wise, that Eric says he uses a 'Bridge Doctor' as standard in all his ukes now, 'a la' David Hurd. Perhaps this is making up for inadequate support in the Kasha blueprint? He says his earlier attempts that did not have this support all tended to sink in front of the bridge over time.

Personally I can't help but feel that a Bridge Doctor style arrangement is counter-intuitive to what you are trying to achieve in a top. Surely it must reduce the main Monopole ability of the top? The primary ability to respond? That said, David Hurd suggests they don't impact negatively and he has done far more science based research than I. He uses(d) them on standard bracing schemes too.

Interesting.

Jeremy.

[Kim]

Eric says he uses a 'Bridge Doctor' as standard in all his ukes now, 'a la' David Hurd. Perhaps this is making up for inadequate support in the Kasha blueprint? He says his earlier attempts that did not have this support all tended to sink in front of the bridge over time.

Personally I can't help but feel that a Bridge Doctor style arrangement is counter-intuitive to what you are trying to achieve in a top. Surely it must reduce the main Monopole ability of the top? The primary ability to respond? That said, David Hurd suggests they don't impact negatively and he has done far more science based research than I. He uses(d) them on standard bracing schemes too.

Interesting.

Jeremy.

That is interesting Jeremy. Breedlove Guitars use a Bridge Dr as well and the couple I have played sounded just like most other factory built guitars in the 2k> price range...nothing 'outstanding', but pretty good all the same.


youtu.be/

Also your suggestion:

The principle of the design style is respectable - to increase the 'active' area of the soundboard and distribute the load over a wide area, evenly. There are many ways of achieving this, indeed you could even see 'Falcate" bracing of Trevor Gore's as a variation of this, at least in principle and superficially - though far more involved and considered as a whole and complete design.

reminded me of Grant Goltz's bracing pattern.

gg_bracedtop.jpg (69.42 KiB) Viewed 30686 times

Grant came up with this concept in 2002 and has been bracing this way since 2003. Kasha inspired? Quite likely.

I agree completely that Trevor Gore's "Flacate" bracing is a more 'holistic' approach toward milking efficiency which is dimensionality directed by the refined data specific to components within the instrument at hand, where as Kasha's bracing 'pattern' appears to be only that, a pattern which essentially only sees wood as a material of construction, and string tension as the force to be reckoned with. But when I look at a Grant Goltz braced top I can't help but see the inkling of a 'fusion' of those two ideas, or perhaps more accurately, an evolutionary step from one toward the other?

http://www.luthiercom.org/phpBB3/viewto ... &sk=t&sd=a (You need to log in to see content at this link, its worth it though because they have some good stuff'n'people also )

Cheers

Kim

[woodrat]

When I saw that GG top Kim, I thought of reindeer antlers....

John

[jeffhigh]

Beautiful workmanship on Eric Devine's site
Can't say I'm convinced of the advantages of Kasha style bracing. It seems to me it is a case of "it's more complicated so it must be betterer"
And why have the bass side/treble side distinction on an instrument with re-entrant tuning?

[Kim]

When I saw that GG top Kim, I thought of reindeer antlers....

John

Really John, whose antlers in particular, Dasher's, Dancer's, Prancer's, Vixen's, Comet's, Cupid's, Donner's, Blitzen's, or Rudolf's ??? If we're to have serious debate mate we do need specifics..

Cheers

Kim

[Kamusur]

Excellent link thanks Kim

Steve

[nnickusa]

Sorry for my ignorance, but...

When building a left-handed guitar, does all the bracing get reversed? Seems it must to me. I do know plenty of lefties who just swap out the nut and saddle and go for it.......

[Allen]

From anything I can tell, it makes no difference at all to wether the bracing is what you might call left or right in it's configuration. If you are aiming at tightening up one side for better treble response, and loosening up another side for the bass response. The instrument doesn't seem to mind on which side it might be placed on.

But that is just one way to look at your bracing design. There are lots of variations out there, and it takes building lots of instruments to figure out what will work for you.