Idea's Input Please
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Idea's Input Please
Hello All, I have my next build on the drawing board this will be Australian Red Cedar Back & Sides, I was thinking about adding to this a purfling of 24K Gold leaf, this is called gilding and with a name like mine I thought I'd give it a go, my idea is to bind the box and then finish with a couple of coats of shellac and then apply the gold onto the shellac and when finished continue on with a french polish finish over the gold, I suppose my question is has anyone tried gilding on a guitar that could advise or does anyone have any input at all that could help ?
Thanks Tod
Thanks Tod
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
A couple of comments from my side, on the Cedar for back and sides:
I have used a lot of this for various furniture projects, and both the colour as well as the hardness of the timber can vary widely depending on the soil and growing conditions, from dark red and firm, to pale pink and quite "wooly".
In general, it is a softer timber, and would be more susceptible to dings than (eg) blackwood, Q maple etc)
In addition, the really spectacular "flame" grain is only evident in the flatsawn timber. Q/S is much less figured.
I have used a lot of this for various furniture projects, and both the colour as well as the hardness of the timber can vary widely depending on the soil and growing conditions, from dark red and firm, to pale pink and quite "wooly".
In general, it is a softer timber, and would be more susceptible to dings than (eg) blackwood, Q maple etc)
In addition, the really spectacular "flame" grain is only evident in the flatsawn timber. Q/S is much less figured.
Regards
Alastair
Alastair
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
Thanks Alistair, I agree completely with regard to AU Cedar Jankar , the Au cedar was chosen after a bit of thought Re the pro’s and con’s ,this build will follow Trevor Gore’s design criteria eg Falcate, Live back, side mass etc and whilst a live back can be produced from almost any species, the same could also be argued for soundboards, but we don’t select them for their hardness, in an attempt to compensate for the softer wood I will use Rosewood bindings and be bloody careful with it as it will be my personal guitar and I am very careful , I have never damaged a guitar Yet. So the hardness wasn’t a significant con.
The Particular board that I have secured from the woodrat’s stash (Thanks John) is perfectly quarter sawn and although rare does display a beautiful exceptional figure.
The Particular board that I have secured from the woodrat’s stash (Thanks John) is perfectly quarter sawn and although rare does display a beautiful exceptional figure.
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
- woodrat
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1155
- Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:31 am
- Location: Hastings River, NSW.
- Contact:
Re: Idea's Input Please
Tod, you got that in one of my weak moments! Well Done!
John
John
"It's never too late to be what you might have been " - George Eliot
Re: Idea's Input Please
Please PM your address.....I'll be arriving tomorrow morningwoodrat wrote:Tod, you got that in one of my weak moments! Well Done!
John
Martin
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
Martin, be careful of the guard dogs They exist on a diet of Luthierkiwigeo wrote:Please PM your address.....I'll be arriving tomorrow morningwoodrat wrote:Tod, you got that in one of my weak moments! Well Done!
John
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
Your dogs would take at least a day to chew up my leathery carcass and then they'd have indigestion for a week afterwards.Tod Gilding wrote:Martin, be careful of the guard dogs They exist on a diet of Luthierkiwigeo wrote:Please PM your address.....I'll be arriving tomorrow morningwoodrat wrote:Tod, you got that in one of my weak moments! Well Done!
John
Martin
Re: Idea's Input Please
woodrat wrote:Tod, you got that in one of my weak moments! Well Done!
John
John,
Unlike Martin, you'e not that far from me. Better keep that guard dog well fed
Regards
Alastair
Alastair
- woodrat
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1155
- Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:31 am
- Location: Hastings River, NSW.
- Contact:
Re: Idea's Input Please
I have just fed them and turned the stash's cloaking device on! There are also trip wires triggering tape recordings of Vogon Poetry at 110dB...that should keep you warmints away!!
John
John
"It's never too late to be what you might have been " - George Eliot
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
That's it John Keep those varmits out of OUR tonewoodwoodrat wrote:I have just fed them and turned the stash's cloaking device on! There are also trip wires triggering tape recordings of Vogon Poetry at 110dB...that should keep you warmints away!!
John
But it looks like no help with the gilding , I have done a google search and can't find anything
looks like this gilding purf may be an original idea. good
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
Tod Gilding wrote:
does anyone have any input at all that could help ?
Thanks Tod
Tod ,
I’ve never done gilding successfully[ I played with it a little] but have read a bit about it , from what I know you would have to read up on water gilding or oil gilding ,they have a different look about them, even if the same gold leaf is used. I think there are other ways of doing it these days. I’m not sure if it can be done with shellac ? possibly.
Water gilding looks stunning. it gets burnished at the end of the process and because of that gets a hard polished look. The guys and Gals that know how to do it well would have spent a fair bit of time learning how.
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
Yeah that's right Rob , I have been learning about it for some time, it is an ancient art. and yes it will need burnishing with agate, that brings it up with a shine , I was just hoping that someone could give some advice on it's use on a guitar, or wood, as it is very thin it shows any deformity as in pores in the wood, this is why I have thought of pore filling first with shellac, to give a smooth surface to apply too, I also believe that some do use shellac as the adhesive. Just thought someone would have used this ancient art previously and could have advised me further. but I am happy especially with a name like Gilding to be the first to try it, I think it will look amazing and understated to an extent as a purfling around a dark wood like AU Cedar.
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
- Trevor Gore
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1609
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm
Re: Idea's Input Please
I have a mate who gilded a Strat he built, so it was a completely gold body. He did tell me how he did it; he is in that line of business. I have a very sketchy recollection of what he said, as it wasn't something I was going to try in a hurry. Apparently there are two methods, one is water gilding (the "proper" way) and another method, which a can't recall. He applied the gold foil and then sprayed it with clear lacquer. He would have had to have had some sort of undercoat on first, which, I guess would have been nitro, and then put the gilding on top of that. To do a purfling, I would think you would have to gild a strip near the edge, then cut through the gold leaf with a purfling cutter both sides and then peel off the excess, leaving a nice even purfling strip. However, I don't know how the stuff peels off once it's on.
I've seen brass inlays on furniture that looks like gold purfling. Provided you can source the annealed brass strip, you could inlay it in a channel like inlaying a shell purfling, and that might be easier,with less risk should you have a sand through when finishing. You would then have to change you name, though - Brassed off?
I've seen brass inlays on furniture that looks like gold purfling. Provided you can source the annealed brass strip, you could inlay it in a channel like inlaying a shell purfling, and that might be easier,with less risk should you have a sand through when finishing. You would then have to change you name, though - Brassed off?
Fine classical and steel string guitars
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
Yeah Trevor "Tod Brassed Off "sounds Ok, but that would mean changing my drivers licence, credit cards, everything
But seriously I am determined to get this done , I will attempt any and all way's until I get it right, and then post a tut on it for anyone that wants to give it a go.
I think if I just mask a strip about 2mm wide and brush shellac on as a an adhesive, apply the leaf, I should be able to just brush the excess off leaving a perfect 2mm wide line ( I Think ) leave it with me.
I can't believe something like this hasn't been done, in this way I mean, I don't think that I would like it all over ,as in a gold plated Strat, but each to their own.
But seriously I am determined to get this done , I will attempt any and all way's until I get it right, and then post a tut on it for anyone that wants to give it a go.
I think if I just mask a strip about 2mm wide and brush shellac on as a an adhesive, apply the leaf, I should be able to just brush the excess off leaving a perfect 2mm wide line ( I Think ) leave it with me.
I can't believe something like this hasn't been done, in this way I mean, I don't think that I would like it all over ,as in a gold plated Strat, but each to their own.
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
Don't be such a bloody wimp Tod...just man up a bit, dig deep and buy a few ozzies of au to make ur own solid purflings...Tod Gilding wrote: I have done a google search and can't find anything
looks like this gilding purf may be an original idea. good
On a more realistic note.. Perhaps you could guild a solid strip of a non-porous pliable material such as copper or soft aluminium, inlay that in a similar fashion to shell using a removable Teflon strip to form a channel between the binding and body but leaving it shy of the surface by .010 or .015". Then you could drop fill with CA and scrape back level prior to finishing and buffing out with the rest of the guitar...no prior experience here but its and idea which may be worth investigating??? But then maybe not too...
Cheers
Kim
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
Sounds Like a Great idea Kim, I will give that a try on a bit of scrap first. Thanks
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
I did a gold leaf finish on an electric once for "fun", it turned out pretty cool, but something along the line contaminated the clear and it's never been right since. I don't think it was the actual gold though. I used acrylic lacquer as the glue, brushing it on, then attempted to put the gold leaf down on the wet surface, then lacquered over the top. Getting the gold to stick was tricky, it's so thin, it breaks really easily. If I did it again I think I'd use a different method or product to get the gold leaf to stick, because I can still see brush strokes in it from the "gluing" which doesn't look terrible but it's not really great either.
I don't know if Gretsch use actual gold leaf on their fancy guys but they might have some tricks to steal?
I don't know if Gretsch use actual gold leaf on their fancy guys but they might have some tricks to steal?
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
Great Matt Thankyou
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
I've not done it on a guitar, but I made my dinning table with copper leaf gilding. It looks great, but it is delicate. I wanted the table to have an old world look so when a bit wore off here and there it wasn't a big deal. I would worry that on a guitar that same wear would look less than ideal.
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
did you have a finish on it Allen ?
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
It's been done:
http://www.lunchtimeshopper.com/musical ... uitars.php
How they did it is still a mystery though.
http://www.lunchtimeshopper.com/musical ... uitars.php
How they did it is still a mystery though.
Chris Reed
- Tod Gilding
- Blackwood
- Posts: 838
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:32 pm
- Location: South West Rocks NSW
Re: Idea's Input Please
I think the one on the left is an early Strat
Tod
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Music is everyone's posession. It's only publishers who think that people own it.
John Lennon
Re: Idea's Input Please
Tho' he's been absent from this thread, methinks Martin might just have some ideas, given his FP and Lute interests??
Regards
Alastair
Alastair
Re: Idea's Input Please
No ideas sorry......gold not really my thing.Alastair wrote:Tho' he's been absent from this thread, methinks Martin might just have some ideas, given his FP and Lute interests??
Martin
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google, Jules93 and 197 guests