Tools!

[Ben]

Hey everyone!

Long time now post! Hope everyone has been well.

I am currently overseas for work and have been looking at what tools/machinery I will buy when I arrive back.

I was thinking about getting most of my machinery from Carbatec.

I am looking at getting the following: Bandsaw, Jointer, Thicknesser, Table saw and Router table.

Does anyone here have any products from Carbatec or does anyone recommend buying somewhere else?

I am looking at getting mid range equipment.

Cheers

Ben

[J.F. Custom]

Hi Ben.

There are numerous brands that would fit the bill, Carba-Tec being one and I have several of their items. You can always ask opinions on specific items in due time as opposed to generic, but you would not be going wrong sticking to brands such as Carba-Tec or Jet etc.

If you are primarily doing guitars though, I question the necessity of all the machines you mention. It depends on what you plan to build, but that's more the machinery list of a cabinet maker - not that you would not find use for it all. I just think you may be better off leaving a couple of those machines off the list to begin with and getting some more specific guitar aids in an initial budget.

A bandsaw is very useful. A thicknesser - I would opt for a drum sander over this as a first purchase. A Jointer is nice to have and use, but not necessary. A good hand plane will do that work, unless you are building electric guitars in which case it is more useful. A Table saw I have managed without though there is no doubt there are certain jobs it would be handy for and many on here will swear by them for ease and convenience of certain luthiery jobs. A router table again, useful but only occasionally and not required, however a good router and laminate trimmer definitely are.

Things to ponder - I hope it helps.

Jeremy.

[woodrat]

Hi Ben.

There are numerous brands that would fit the bill, Carba-Tec being one and I have several of their items. You can always ask opinions on specific items in due time as opposed to generic, but you would not be going wrong sticking to brands such as Carba-Tec or Jet etc.

If you are primarily doing guitars though, I question the necessity of all the machines you mention. It depends on what you plan to build, but that's more the machinery list of a cabinet maker - not that you would not find use for it all. I just think you may be better off leaving a couple of those machines off the list to begin with and getting some more specific guitar aids in an initial budget.

A bandsaw is very useful. A thicknesser - I would opt for a drum sander over this as a first purchase. A Jointer is nice to have and use, but not necessary. A good hand plane will do that work, unless you are building electric guitars in which case it is more useful. A Table saw I have managed without though there is no doubt there are certain jobs it would be handy for and many on here will swear by them for ease and convenience of certain luthiery jobs. A router table again, useful but only occasionally and not required, however a good router and laminate trimmer definitely are.

Things to ponder - I hope it helps.

Jeremy.

I agree with Jeremy 100% here...I came to lutherie from furniture so I had all those machines anyway as the core of a small cabinetmaking enterprise. So what would I do if I was coming into lutherie again. I would buy a drill press, a bandsaw and a thickness sander. I would buy all my wood as sets and get right into it. Sets are easier too store and take up less space than all the large billets that I resaw my wood from....but I am a wood tragic so I accept that as part of who I am:)
As Jeremy said, use the money to buy lutherie specific hand tools as well as a good quality hand plane as that will do everything that a luthier would need a jointer for . I am a fan of the No.5 1/2 size as it will joint as well as double as a smoother if you can only afford one plane. A good block plane would also be considered essential.
There are lots of lutherie specific tools that you can put the dosh towards like specialist fretting tools, straightedges, radius dishes, heat blankets...the list goes on.
Also there is one other piece of 'machinery' that I now consider essential especially if you are trying to build instruments on the coast in Australia and that is a dehumidifier. I had a large workshop and I walled off a section and made a purpose built dry room. Money spent on this will be returned in peace of mind as your instruments will have 'built in' insurance (up to a point of course) against the dreaded effects of low humidity that can and do happen.

John

[Mark McLean]

Hi Ben
It depends on what scale of operation you are planning. If you are getting into luthery as a hobby, not a business, I am in agreement with everthing that Jeremy and John just wrote. I am now working on guitars number 5 and 6 and I have been gradually scaling up my gear.
I recently bought a drum sander and this is a great boon. But I have no use for a thicknesser.
You need a dust extractor if you get a drum sander.
Band saw, definitely yes - but I have managed without a table saw until now.
Hand held router, laminate trimmer and Dremel are essential - but a router table not so important.
No need for a jointer - you can shoot good joints with a hand plane and a shooting board.
Have you got a drill press and a belt sander? - these are pretty cheap but essential.
Where to buy? - yes, Carbatec stock stuff that you can rely on. I also bought at Hare & Forbes.

Blow the money that you save on some of the power tools on the following:

Essential hand tools (you probably have many of these already):
Chisels, decent block plane, finger planes (the little Ibex ones), cabinet scrapers, small thin kerf saws, numerous vices of different sizes. I am totally in love with a Veritas spokeshave that I recently bought (from Carbatec) for neck carving.

Various jigs and tools specifically for guitar making really make life easier (Stewart McDonald or LMI are the best source for these). The ones that I use all of the time are:
Circle cutting jig for the Dremel
Nut and saddle making vice
Slot files and fretting kit
Routing bits and spacing washers for cutting binding channels

If you are building acoustics you need to decide how you will bend the sides. I enjoy doing it by hand on a bending irom (I bought the Ibex one, got it from Gerard Gilet). If you are making a lot of instruments it will be better to use some version of the Fox-style side bender with heating blankets.

Then, how do you want to apply finishes? I do low-tech hand applied oil finishes, but they do not result in a really professional standard result. Do you want to get into spray gear? I am not the one to tell you about that, but you will get great advice here (especially from Allen McFarlen).

Finally - people keep talking about this here and novices like me keep ignoring it until something bad happens to them - you need to control the relative humidity in your workspace. A dehumidifier is an essential luthery tool in most places of costal Australia.

cheers
Mark

[peter.coombe]

All good advice from all the above. I have a page on my website on workshop and tools you might like to look at. Go to http://petercoombe.com/Workshop_and_tools.htm One thing I just noticed I missed is the floor standing drill press. Recommeded for guitars, but I hardly ever used it when I was only making mandolins. I lived without the planer/thicknesser and the big band saw for years, so they are not essential, although they are great time savers. The big bandsaw has been very useful for resawing guitar sets, but you can buy them already done and save the trouble. In terms of power tools my priority would be (1) bandsaw, (2) drum sander (3) drill press, (4) belt sander, and get a dust extractor before you fire up anything. A table saw is useful, but not essential. I would get the essentials first and build up from there. Once you get into the groove of making instruments, you soon work out what tools are essential and what will save you time. It is easy to buy something that is hardly ever used when first starting to build up your workshop. I would put my wood lathe into that category. I think I used it once in the last 2 years since we moved to Bega. The other thing I would add is to get the best quality you can afford. Cheap power tools will be a source of frustration and extra cost (i.e. replacement) in years to come. In addition to Carbatech, have a look at Woodfast, an old Aussie company. I have been very impressed with the quality of my Woodfast planer/thicknesser and wood lathe. Also, sometimes you can get quality old second hand power tools that were built like tanks and will last several lifetimes. Just make sure your floor will take the weight! Woodfast, Durden etc were made in the days when heavy duty was the norm, and they were made to last. My Durden table saw is at least 40 years old.

[auscab]

Do some research on eBay for the area you are prepared to travel ,look up the completed listings section for the type of machine.
Plenty of second hand Carbatec gear can go for almost half price. The bonus about getting it that way is if you decide that you want to upgrade ,you will get back close to what you paid.

If you are going to set up a work shop, you may want to construct all sorts of things , jigs , tables ,benches and tool cabinets, storage units like boxes or shelves.

The machines you listed will make doing all that much faster and more enjoyable as well as build the guitars. You will be able to convert timber bought home from work {you’re a chippy ? is that right ?} buy the biggest you can afford as well.

Walking into a shop and buying it all at once would be a time saver as well if you can do it that way.And you will have made some new friends , salesmen friends. At least until the cheque clears any way

[Ben]

Thanks for the replies!

Very useful information as always.

I am looking at making electric bass guitars.

The machinery I listed were ones that I have seen people use before. So I was not sure if it was all useful etc.

I already have a belt/disc sander. Would there be a requirement of getting and oscillating sander then? Ive seen people use both for sanding edges of the guitar body etc.

With the table saw I saw someone use a saw blade from stewmac for cutting the fret slots. Do you think that would be a good idea or am I just getting lazy?

Again thanks for your replies!

Ben

[simso]

All great tools.

But if I was starting out again, I would start with a bandsaw and a mounted router, the other power tools are luxurys, which you will still come to use every day, the jointer would be the one thing in my shop that accumulates more dust than wood shavings, but I still would not swap it for anything

Invest in quality hand tools, they will be your bread and butter earners

[woodrat]

Ben, I use SM's fret slotting Japanese handsaw and the template and guide and its really good. There is a new one with roller guides instead of brass like mine has. It will take up a lot less space than a table saw an a lot less initial outlay. Dont get caught with tools that you dont use. Machines dont necessarily make things easier and they can be expensive if they just collect dust.

John

[Phil]

Ben, I recon that you are coming from the wrong angle in selecting your tools.

For instance the Jointer. .... Look at the floor space it wil use, and how often you will use it. You will need hearing protection and dust extraction.... all to do a single joint that one can do in 2 mins with a sharp block plane.

You can buy all the machines and make a shed full of jigs. But this would take all the pleasure out of lutherie. Might as well get a job in an Ikea factory.

I am not against machines and jigs. I do like my time saving drum sander, also the new Stewmac fretting gadget with ball bearing guides is very satisfying to use. However, I do enjoy the sound and the tactile response of using hand tools as much as I can.

Here is a better way to go in building a workshop. Purchase the cheapest machines from big B or even second hand in the full knowledge that it will let you down. When they do let you down, replace them with the best you can afford. You will make a very intelligent purchase of the replacement machine.

Phil.

[P Bill]

Ben try Wood-N-You to get started and to find out the machines you use the most. They can sometimes put you on to second hand machines as well.


http://www.woodnyou.com/