Dove tail neck joint help---PLEASE

[nnickusa]

I've gotten to the point that I'm ready to make the dovetail joint for the guitar, but I can only find a 9/16" deep cutting bit. Is this OK, or should I keep looking for something else?

The plans seem to show a depth of 3/4" more than 9/16"....

As I see it, I've only got one shot at this, as any further routing will only make the two elements "looser" in fit...

I've made jigs that leave the neck about a 1/4" proud on the body top, which I can adjust, but am looking for a shoulder to lean on for this step....

Thanks.

PS: Already I've gotten more advice than I can possible repay, but.....

[Craig]

My advice if it's not already too late, is scrap the idea of a dovetail in favour of a straight mortice and tenon bolt-on arrangement.
Those dovetails are surely the joint from hell with no real advantages . In fact their main disadvantage ( apart from the initial fit-up,) is the difficulty performing a neck reset if needed at some later date.
A bolt-on arrangement being quite simple in comparison , and no, there's been no proof (that I know of) that a dovetail being superior tonally .

[nnickusa]

Well, the body is assembled, and the neck is only roughed out. Is it easy to create the bolt part of the assembly?

I can make a new jig for the mortise and tenon part easily enough.

I also saw in the book I'm using, Kinkade, that it's possible to epoxy a mortise and tenon joint, which I've been thinking about. Would that be a viable option? Keeping in mind that this is my first build, and I really just want a guitar that plays for this one, and I'll go for hotrod looks and the rest on later ones....

Thanks,
Nick

[kiwigeo]

I also saw in the book I'm using, Kinkade, that it's possible to epoxy a mortise and tenon joint, which I've been thinking about. Would that be a viable option? Keeping in mind that this is my first build, and I really just want a guitar that plays for this one, and I'll go for hotrod looks and the rest on later ones....

Thanks,
Nick

DONT epoxy a neck joint. If you need to do a neck reset sometime in the future then youre going to have fin getting the neck off.

A double half blind dovetail joint is one of the toughest joint known to man.......which is the reason I do 'em on my steel strings. That said if I was a more sensible person id be doing bolt on necks....fare easier and neck resetting is alot easier further down the track.

My basic procedure for cutting a dovetail is to cut the mortise in the body first and then the neck tenon. I do this with a router and dovetail bit (10deg) and a couple of jigs. The tenon is cut slightly oversize so it fits down into the mortise with about 2-3mm sticking above the guitar top. I then do the final fit by sanding the tenon. I identify high spots by rubbing chalk inside the mortise and then test fitting the tenon...chalk will appear on the tenon high spots and can be sanded accordingly.

[DarwinStrings]

I am a bolt on fan too Nick but I reckon making a dovetail is a great exercise. If you exhaust your search for a bit that will reach 3/4 you could cut to the 9/16 depth then excavate the other 3/16 with a chisel. I think Stewy Mac does a bit to do the job though.

Jim

Life is good when you are amongst the wood

[nnickusa]

OK, here's a question. What depth of cut is needed for the dovetail? I'm set up and ready to go--lots of carpentry experience--with jigs made, and router at the ready.....

Is a 9/16" deep cut OK?

Nick

[nnickusa]

OOPS...seem to have posted at the same time....So, I assume that the 3/4 depth is really needed...Dang, that means new jigs

[DarwinStrings]

I also meant to say that if you do get a loose fit then you can always shim it and re-fit it.

Jim

[kiwigeo]

OOPS...seem to have posted at the same time....So, I assume that the 3/4 depth is really needed...Dang, that means new jigs

I cut my mortise 3/4" deep and the tenon is a few mm shorter than 3/4" to allow for a gap between back of tenon and bottom of mortise. The backs of the tenon and bottom of mortise shouldn't be butted hard against each other...the gap also allows injection of steam should the joint need to be undone at any stage.

[nnickusa]

Thanks Martin,

That means a new jig for the neck block, and some chiseling......I can do that....

Cheers,
Nick

[kiwigeo]

Nick,

See this thread and check out the link to John Hall's video on doing neck joints.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4024

[nnickusa]

Thanks, Martin. Did that.....

On another tangent, where do you guys get the threaded inserts and bolts for that style of neck? I've looked at a few Aussie sites, but don't find them. StewMac?

[Craig]

where do you guys get the threaded inserts and bolts for that style of neck? I've looked at a few Aussie sites, but don't find them. StewMac?

You could get them from Stewmac's but I think you are probably able to pick up these items from most hardware stores . There are options with a bolt -on arrangement . The threaded inserts type ,or The barrel and bolt type . I'd bet Bunning's would have both ! ,, and Yes , It would give you the opportunity to pick up one of their famous barby sausages that Martin and Matthew are so fond of.
Another option is fabricating a solid round or square rod inserted into the heel with 2 threaded holes as used by our Bob Connor as well as described in the Gore /Gillet book
You could go " all out " and have a bolt-on with an adjustable neck. The choice is yours