Amplification

[MBP]

Hi All,


Just wondering what pickups you are using in your acoustics and what amps you are running them through.

Big fan of sound hole pickups simply because they can easily be taken out and do not involve and modification to the guitar.
M1 and M1A. Probably not the most natural but if thats whats someones after a mic and PA is the go

[kiwigeo]

K and K for my babies.

[MBP]

Any particular model?

[christian]

LR Baggs for my guitars,
I use the Element, Ibeam or LB6
all fantastic pickups !! and really simple to install.

Christian.

[Kim]

K&K pure and western mini for me. I also have a Takamine Triax (Its just a re-branded LR Baggs M1a in black with gold lettering instead of the white body black lettering of a standard Baggs M1a) By fitting an extra mini stereo cable to the stereo jack inside the guitar when wiring in the K&K's, I can quickly plug in and fit the M1a to the soundhole when required and run two separate mono signals via a stereo lead which then "Y" junctions to split out each mono signal to the two inputs of a K&K Dual Channel Pro belt clip preamp.

From the preamp you can mix the two signals (separate internal B/M/T equaliser for each mono input), and their dominance within the mix via two external gain pots for output to the amplifier. Seems to work really well if you need to cut through, but for home use or just a basic jam at a party etc. the K&K minis jacked direct to an AER Compact 60 is pretty hard to beat.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

Any particular model?

See Kims post

[Kim]

Just a headsup on fitting K&Ks.

K&K minis are a great product 'but' how well they perform is directly related to how well they have been installed.

If you get the placement of the transducers wrong, or otherwise make a botch up of the job, they cannot be expected to perform well. Every problem I have seen with K&Ks has been due to an installer error.

This is not to say K&K's are difficult to fit because they are not. Its a pretty straight forward operation however you do need to follow the directions carefully and use the supplied jig to get alignment right so that each traducer sits directly below the saddle, and lines up right between its relevant pair of bridge pins. If you go at it like a bull at a gate and fail to get that right, then you cannot expect the strings to have a balanced output and that will be your own fault not K&K's...

Here is a link to their tutorial...there is a .pdf to download so you can print a copy to take out to the shed with you and do a proper job.

http://www.kksound.com/jig.html

Cheers

Kim

[brian64]

The instructions use the pin holes to position the transducers. Any thoughts how to do it with a pinless bridge?

[Kim]

The instructions use the pin holes to position the transducers. Any thoughts how to do it with a pinless bridge?

Have not done one Brian, but if one came up I would set something up using the back edge of the soundhole as a reference. Set up a registration point at the soundhole, do the alignment on top of the guitar and then slip the jig inside when the glue is applied. Maybe if you were to drill two small holes through the top directly below the centre of the saddle location to use as reference points you could use this guys method and glue all 3 buds in one hit.

http://www.frettech.com/kk/index.html

Here is a tubeclip of the Baggs M1a..they sound really good for a soundhole pickup, not near as brash on the trebles as most and blended with the K&Ks its a pretty awesome mix and you don't have the cable hanging out the soundhole because the mini cable installed inside the guitar plugs into the input jack on the bottom of the pickup.


youtu.be/

Cheers

Kim

[MBP]

You dont have to have the cable coming out the sound hole, you can fit a jack that doubles as a strap lock.

I like the idea of the mixing.

[brian64]

Thanks Kim.

Nice sound on that clip, but with the talent of the player I'm sure that any guitar/pickup would sound good.

[Trevor Gore]

The instructions use the pin holes to position the transducers. Any thoughts how to do it with a pinless bridge?

Make yourself a set of locators - each a small piece of perspex or similar with a notch filed in which is the same diameter as the transducer. Stick the locators to the underside of the soundboard with double sided tape, taking as many goes as it takes to get them exactly in position, checking with a mirror or backlight through the soundboard. Then when you come to gluing in the transducers, just slide them into location (the notch), hold while the glue sets, then remove the locator. Don't use so much glue that you glue in the locator!

[brian64]

Thanks for the update Kim and for the idea Trev. Very useful info.

Another question - how do the K&K pickups without separate pre-amps go with mixing with magnetic pickups? Is the output strong enough to mix directly, or do they really need a pre-amp?

[Kim]

Another question - how do the K&K pickups without separate pre-amps go with mixing with magnetic pickups? Is the output strong enough to mix directly, or do they really need a pre-amp?

The K&Ks have plenty of passive output for most situations and 'if' you do find that you need more gain for some reason you can always run a preamp.

If I am mixing the K&K with the M1a soundhole pickup, I will switch off the M1a's internal preamp so it too becomes passive. As explained above, in that situation the separate mono signal from each pickup is taken to a K&K preamp for blending via a stereo cable plugged into the guitar's stereo output jack.

Here's the preamp I have used to do this:



http://www.kksound.com/dualchannel.html

This preamp has 10x gain so I 'could' leave the M1a active if I wanted to and simply boost the K&K at the preamp to match...but then how loud do you need to be??

Cheers

Kim

[woodrat]

Hi Brian and everyone, I have installed several K and K's with success in my guitars. I second what Kim says about taking your time and working methodically and you will get the results that you desire...nice pure sound reproduction. I fit the B Band A1.2 pickup to my Journeyman guitars and find that they are very good too. They have a very thin undersaddle transducer that they call Electret film that apparently has some electrically charged micro gas bubbles inside it (according to the Promo material supplied) They seem nice and natural as well and are easy to install which is always a plus:) I have also used the A2.2 which is a dual source pickup with a blend capacity where you can blend the signal from the Electret undersaddle PUP with the AST or Acoustic Soundboard Transducer that is a strip of similar material that sticks to the underside of the bridge plate. It has a footprint of about 70mm x 14mm. It seems much more sensitive to the wood vibrations to me, I dont know why. It is more sensitive to the sound of your fingers on the strings than the undersaddle pickup. The blend control is a little wheel that you can mount in the edge of the soundhole. The controls have a volume wheel and a tone or blend wheel. It is a nice little package and the sound is excellent.
I have also fitted a couple of L R Baggs I beams and they work nicely too. I had an interesting one yesterday though that I had not seen before. A chap brought a soprano uke in for me to fit a pickup to that he had with him. It is called a Mi-Si and it is a capacitor discharge pickup. No battery needed but you charge the onboard capacitor for 60 seconds and that will give you 16 hours of playing amplified. It was an undersaddle element. It was a nifty little thing and fitted nicely inside the cavernous soprano uke:)

John

[Allen]

I've used the MISI acoustic trio pickup with its integrated preamp and it really surprised me at how easy it was to install, and how good it sounds.

Don't try to buy them in Australia unless you have a lot more luck than me. The "wholesale" price I've been quoted was more than double the retail I pay from the USA. Elderly instruments carries them amongst others.

The only issue is that the universal charger comes with 110 plug configuration, so I picked up the 110 - 220 pin adaptor from an ebay seller out of Hong Kong. At $1 each including the shipping you can't go wrong.

[woodrat]

I've used the MISI acoustic trio pickup with its integrated preamp and it really surprised me at how easy it was to install, and how good it sounds.

Don't try to buy them in Australia unless you have a lot more luck than me. The "wholesale" price I've been quoted was more than double the retail I pay from the USA. Elderly instruments carries them amongst others.

The only issue is that the universal charger comes with 110 plug configuration, so I picked up the 110 - 220 pin adaptor from an ebay seller out of Hong Kong. At $1 each including the shipping you can't go wrong.

Hi Allen, I went to the website via your link in your post...that is the one that he brought with him and I installed it into his LAG baby soprano. It had a circuit board with a big blue capacitor on it and the braided element UST....Yes it was easy and sounded good!

[Paul Eisenbrey]

Hi guys -- K&K for me as well. I like that there are no batteries to run down, and no holes in the ribs for a control panel.

It is possible to screw it up (don't ask me how I know). Especially if the bridge plate is small and close to where the x-brace meets. You can inadvertently glue one of the pickups -- like the treble one -- to the x-brace.

The good news is: If you go to your amp and dial the bass and midrange back some, and increase the treble, it still sounds pretty darn good.

--Paul

[ozziebluesman]

Another vote for the k&k mini western system. I have one installed in my weissenborn, 000 and parlor acoustic guitars. The sound is very natural and I haven't needed to use a preamp through my Yamaha PA. To improve and have more control over your tone the k&k DI XLR Preamp would be my choice. These pickups are very sensative so if you are going to use them in a live band environment you may encounter feedback issues. For a solo setup the sound is superb, full and lush even through my Fender Blues Junior.

Cheers

Alan

[Nick]

I've run the K&K's on my Selmer models (in conjunction with an active EMG in the neck posn), they can be run direct into the amp (as Kims pointed out), I ran them through a endpin preamp, a Fishman Power Jack, simply because I could wire the Jack in stereo, one channel is 'passive' so I ran the EMG through that as it was already boosted and the K&K's through the jacks' amplified channel. Looks like a standard endpin jack on the guitar so nothing 'unsightly' but you do have the hassle of mounting an onboard battery somewhere to power it. I've also used the L.R.Baggs Element in conjunction with the stage pro side mounted preamp on my LC model & was extremely happy with the sound reproduction this gave for a UST, very true to the unamplified sound, but of course it does mean whacking a hole in the side of the guitar to mount the preamp .
I wouldn't hesitate recommending either pickup.

[Kim]

I've also used the L.R.Baggs Element in conjunction with the stage pro side mounted preamp on my LC model & was extremely happy with the sound reproduction this gave for a UST, very true to the unamplified sound, but of course it does mean whacking a hole in the side of the guitar to mount the preamp .
I wouldn't hesitate recommending either pickup.

So the MI-SI set up mentioned earlier by John the woodrat and Allen looks like a great solution to allow one to run the Baggs L.R. Elemnet without the need for a battery or extra hole being bored into the guitar.




And @ $120 USD + Shipping the price seems quite doable as well..

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/MSAT1.htm

I think I will need to give these things a go...happy enough with the K&K but curiosity has got me wondering if you could still loop them in to the mi-si to output balanced dual source without the need for an external preamp?? Wonder if tapping into the circuit that way would load the demand on the charge capacitor?? I doubt it would because the circuit should simply see the input as a signal to be amplified regardless of how much is tapped into it but I do not understand enough to know for sure.

If this can be done then the next step of course would be to spring for the $35 extra and wire a mi-si volume/tone control into the loop fitting it to the underside of the soundhole..



http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/MSVTC.htm

Its a good thread when new possibilities rise to the surface.

Cheers

Kim

[Allen]

The MISI is a favourite of ukesters. I was really pleasantly surprised when I plugged the first one in and found that it worked better than I had hoped.