Woods for lute staves

[Marc]

Gidday there.
I've been watching Kiwigeo's lute build with a fair bit of envy, I'm doing the same CD course, but nowhere near as tidy and perfect.It is good to know that It usually takes more than one attempt to get things right.
Anyway I've started building the bowl with mahogany, but at the moment it looks a bit dull as it doesn't have much figure.
I was wondering if any one has experience using Tubi/ Soloman islands ebony for guitars or lutes. I've seen lute backs made entirley of african ebony and they look pretty stunning.
But have never seen or worked with Tubi, or I think it might be called Queen ebony in some
Wookworking circles.
Can it be steam bent? And dose it take years or months to oxidise to black?

Any advise would be really appreciated.
Marc.

[kiwigeo]

Gidday there.
I've been watching Kiwigeo's lute build with a fair bit of envy, I'm doing the same CD course, but nowhere near as tidy and perfect.It is good to know that It usually takes more than one attempt to get things right.
Anyway I've started building the bowl with mahogany, but at the moment it looks a bit dull as it doesn't have much figure.
I was wondering if any one has experience using Tubi/ Soloman islands ebony for guitars or lutes. I've seen lute backs made entirley of african ebony and they look pretty stunning.
But have never seen or worked with Tubi, or I think it might be called Queen ebony in some
Wookworking circles.
Can it be steam bent? And dose it take years or months to oxidise to black?

Any advise would be really appreciated.
Marc.

Hi Marc and welcome to the forum.

A few comments:

1. Mahogany may be challenging for you compared to something like Indian Rosewood. Mahogany can I believe be a pain to bend. To minimise chances of splitting I'd go as thin as you can with the staves. Steam bending sounds like a labourious way to go. try and stay with a wood that you can easily bend on an electric iron. When fitting the staves you'll be doing a lot of bending and test fitting.
2. I wouldnt be too worried about lack of figure on your staves. Ive seen plenty of lutes with figureless staves and they look fine. To add a bit of interest you can always fit purflings in between the staves like Ive done.
3. Robert, another of our members has built using the van Edwards tutorial so may have some comments to add.

Cheers Martin

[Marc]

Hi Martin,
Thanks for the welcome.
I've been lurking for about a year now and really enjoy all the posts and build alongs.
I think apart from the skills you guys have the most interesting thing is the use of OZ and Nz timbers.
Sorry I wasn't clear, I do use a chunk of aluminium mast as a electric iron.
Apart from bending one pair of cherry guitar sides I don't have experience of bending wood.
I got the first 3 staves bent Ok after learning that if you follow the CD instructions exactally you can't go far wrong. I thought I'd be smart and allow double the suggested saftey margin on the staves only to find that after about 20 slices of precious old mahogany that you can only make the twists and curves of the shape by having the stave as close to the blueprints as possible plus just a 5mm margin.
The mahogany I using seems Ok but creeps back a little out of shape after a few hours, so I guess I sould glue it immediatley.
Just can't help thinking this tubi ebony would look nice, maybe with maple sycamore spacers. I bet it's as brittle as glass though.

[kiwigeo]

I thought I'd be smart and allow double the suggested saftey margin on the staves only to find that after about 20 slices of precious old mahogany that you can only make the twists and curves of the shape by having the stave as close to the blueprints as possible plus just a 5mm margin.
The mahogany I using seems Ok but creeps back a little out of shape after a few hours, so I guess I sould glue it immediatley.
Just can't help thinking this tubi ebony would look nice, maybe with maple sycamore spacers. I bet it's as brittle as glass though.

Hi Marc,

Yes follow the stave templates but note you need to allow more on the side thats closest to the base of the mold when fitted on same. You can cut all the staves in one go but bend and final shape only one of them at a time. Unless your mold is perfect you'll be doing a fair bit of trimming and adjusting to make the staves fit. Watch you dont over trim and end up shortening the stave too much at the neck end. If things look a bit untidy at the neck block or bum end dont fret too much as the very end of the neck block gets trimmed to take the neck and therell be a belly strap to cover where the staves meet on the bum end of the body.

[J.F. Custom]

Hi Marc.

I have not used it but...

All the Tubi/Queen Ebony I have seen has been a variety of brownish shades. So far as I'm aware, it does not oxidize to black naturally as you suggest. Many timbers oxidize to at least a darker or richer colour post machining, while others can vividly change such as 'Purple Heart'.

When speaking with Sitco (the importers) some years ago though, the sales person said it needed to be 'treated' with ???, after which it turns black. The problem as you'll see, is that I can't recall what you had to treat it with. I must not have been paying enough attention Given this and the fact that it has no relation to true ebony (diospyros spp.) one can only assume the name "Queen Ebony" has been applied by those wishing to make it "marketable" to a particular industry.

It is quite possibly a nice timber in itself - I just don't like this sort of seemingly random common name application as they can be very misleading. Perhaps someone else can correct my assumption here with further insight into this timber.

The only comment I can make as to it's suitability for lutes is with respect to its weight. It is at the more heavy end of the timber spectrum. Far heavier than the mahogany you are using currently and more than your average rosewood or ebony. That does not say it is not suitable, but something to consider and plan for in your build.

Jeremy.

[auscab]

Hi Marc.

When speaking with Sitco (the importers) some years ago though, the sales person said it needed to be 'treated' with ???, after which it turns black. The problem as you'll see, is that I can't recall what you had to treat it with. I must not have been paying enough attention
Jeremy.

It may have been an iron oxide stain Jeremy, not sure if thats exactly the right name for it, it's like a reaction stain , I use it to send Oak grey or black, jet black if I need it that black, works on timbers with enough tannic acid in them I think, I make it up by soaking steel wool in a jar of water with vinegar in it,or the grinding dust from my grinder.
Water and steel left on timber does it, Oxalic acid removes it.

Rob

[Marc]

Guys thanks for all your advice,
Kiwigeo,
Yep, it's a steep learning curve but its going OK.Amazing how that upside down block plane works. I've got my hacksaw blades and acitone ready to make some of those rose knives you suggested. Look forward to seeing how you'll fit the pegs.

Blackwood,
Thanks for your advise, I did see some Sitco photos on the net from the SIs, they had a few jet black carvings on display with their lumber. Guess whatever it is that turns Tubi black is not too difficult or complex if the craftsmen can afford to do it. It sounds like Tubi suffers a lot more from checking and cracks than normal ebony and is still reasonably expensive so I will give it a miss on this project. Might try and experiment a bit with iron stains, it'd be amazing to create your own mock ebony for pegs and fret boards etc.

Mytle,
I'd heard about steel wool and vinager ebonising wood but thought you had to soak it for weeks. I'll do a search on the site, I guess there's a chart on tanin content in woods somewhere on the net. Thanks for the info.