Davis Glue Pearls.

[Bruce McC]

DavisGluepearls.jpg (192.53 KiB) Viewed 14570 times

One for all the users of HHG. Do glue pearls have a shelf life?
The price on the box is 7/- so the contents must be at least
45+ years old. The pearls are dry and separate they have not
congealed into a solid mass.

[Kim]

No shelf life, it will last forever if you protect it from rats as they like to eat it....rat toffee. If you add water now, or one of your descendants does in a few hundred years time, and heat it up, it will work as well as it did the day it was packaged by Davis.

Cheers

Kim

[Bruce McC]

Thanks for that Kim, now I must go looking for the Aldi chocolate moulding kits
that Graham Mac recommended.

[DarwinStrings]

Nice find Bruce, it must have been in a decent cupboard to stop it from getting eaten. Would be very authentic for restoring pre decimal built guitars I guess, or maybe you could find a glue collector to sell it to on Ebay.

Jim

[kiwigeo]

Nice find Bruce, it must have been in a decent cupboard to stop it from getting eaten. Would be very authentic for restoring pre decimal built guitars I guess, or maybe you could find a glue collector to sell it to on Ebay.

Jim

Sad but there will be someone out there who collects old glue.

[Puff]

Wish they still made it

[Alastair]

An interesting bit of useless info!

I grew up not far from the (one of the???????) Davis Gelatin factory near Johannesburg in South Africa.
Used regularly to be assailed by the delicate aroma of hide digestion

The factory lay near the small aerodrome, as well as the hillclimb track, both interests which my dad had, hence my familiarity,

[Nick]

Used regularly to be assailed by the delicate aroma of hide digestion

That's a delicate way of putting it Alistair I used to work opposite a Davis Gelatine factory, gawd it smelt godaweful on brew-up day One of my vegetarian friends describes such places as "Lips & Arsehole factories" Because of their use of the inedible parts of the animal.

[Kim]

One of my vegetarian friends describes such places as "Lips & Arsehole factories" Because of their use of the inedible parts of the animal.

Inedible? So exactly what do you think those 'chewy bits' in meat pies are then??

Cheers

Kim

[matthew]

No shelf life, it will last forever if you protect it from rats as they like to eat it....rat toffee. If you add water now, or one of your descendants does in a few hundred years time, and heat it up, it will work as well as it did the day it was packaged by Davis.

Cheers

Kim

Well speaking from experience I would say you'd be well advised to do a test or two before you try it on your next guitar. I found a couple of boxes of that stuff, same stuff, same vintage, but slightly ground, and the stuff was utter shite. For the price of a pack of ultra clear 192 it's not worth the risk.

[DarwinStrings]

One of my vegetarian friends describes such places as "Lips & Arsehole factories" Because of their use of the inedible parts of the animal.

Inedible? So exactly what do you think those 'chewy bits' in meat pies are then??

Cheers

Kim

At least all those bits are washed in ammonia before they put them in my pies, mmmmmmmmm.

Jim

[Kim]

Well speaking from experience I would say you'd be well advised to do a test or two before you try it on your next guitar. I found a couple of boxes of that stuff, same stuff, same vintage, but slightly ground, and the stuff was utter shite. For the price of a pack of ultra clear 192 it's not worth the risk.

Yes and experiment would always be advisable but how much experience had you with HHG before drawing your conclusion about the Davis product Matthew? I only enquirer as I am at a loss to understand how the product could have deteriorated over time?

My comments above are based upon my own personal experience and that of a french polisher/restorer who had put me on to hide glue for the first time many years ago...I think it was the early 1980's. I still have some of the 'pearl' he took from a huge sack and gave to me to try out.

Last time I played with this stuff, (about 3 or 4 years ago) it was just fine. I only stopped using it because I have no idea of the actual gram strength which is the only reason why I switched to 192 high clarity. I know there may have been many years, at least 14 anyhow, between pre-decimal currency made glue and the stuff from the 1980's, but a couple of things make me wonder what the problem could have been with your glue.

First of all, this french polisher had immigrated from England bringing his business with him...that included the big sack of pearl glue from which he took my generous sample and he had been well established in the Perth hills area for quite a few years before I stumbled across his operation. So we can add at least another 10 years to my sample...but here is the main point that is causing my confusion.

When this fellow was lauding the benefits of HHG leading to him giving me that sample, our conversation had been triggered be me first inquiring as to the purpose of the grubby stainless steel syringe he had laying on his bench. His explanation to me was that the true beauty in HHG is that rather than him needing to pull apart some of the antique pieces sent to him for restoration to affect a repair, often times, as long as no one had tried to fix the problem themselves using PVA or Araldite , he could simply inject any loose joints with hot water to reconstitute the dried glue and clamp it back into place saving a lot of money because clean up was minimal and refinishing not required...some of those pieces where well over 100 years old and he was re-using the original hide glue. He would not do so on chairs and such simply because of the risk involved, but dressers and sideboards no problem...as your signature use to say.."Strong stuff this glue"

EDIT: Thought I had best clarify that the re-constitution of glue joints as described above was not 'the' standard practice employed or recommended, rather it was an option offered to those seeking a 'cost effective' repair suitable for antique 'occasional furniture'.

Cheers

Kim

[matthew]

Yes and experiment would always be advisable but how much experience had you with HHG before drawing your conclusion about the Davis product Matthew? I only enquirer as I am at a loss to understand how the product could have deteriorated over time?

My comments above are based upon my own personal experience ...

I'm sorry to confuse you. Hide glue is fairly pure protein. Protein is an organic substance and can denature if exposed to heat, or otherwise deteriorate with moisture, bacteria, chemical fumes etc. In a joint it is fairly well protected, and yes it can last hundreds of years. In a packet you don't know. It might be OK.

My comments above are based upon my own personal experience with the batch of old hide glue of a similar vintage to the pack the orignal poster was asking about. I only use hide glue, none of that modern titebond stuff. I tried to use the old glue and it was shite. Smelt bad, didn't melt properly, joints were brittle and dodgy. Both packets, unopened before I got to them. My caveat stands.

[jeffhigh]

Possibly the difference Matthew was that yours was ground rather than pearl.
I would expect the greater surface area to hasten deterioration.

[Kim]

Yes and experiment would always be advisable but how much experience had you with HHG before drawing your conclusion about the Davis product Matthew? I only enquirer as I am at a loss to understand how the product could have deteriorated over time?

My comments above are based upon my own personal experience ...

I'm sorry to confuse you. Hide glue is fairly pure protein. Protein is an organic substance and can denature if exposed to heat, or otherwise deteriorate with moisture, bacteria, chemical fumes etc. In a joint it is fairly well protected, and yes it can last hundreds of years. In a packet you don't know. It might be OK.

My comments above are based upon my own personal experience with the batch of old hide glue of a similar vintage to the pack the orignal poster was asking about. I only use hide glue, none of that modern titebond stuff. I tried to use the old glue and it was shite. Smelt bad, didn't melt properly, joints were brittle and dodgy. Both packets, unopened before I got to them. My caveat stands.

I guess coming from an unknown storage environment for perhaps the last 60+ years anything could have happened. Possible that at some stage the glue, even unopened had absorbed enough moisture to support bacterial or fungal growth which led to the breakdown of protein. If indeed that was the case, then glue 'powder' would surely be more susceptible than pearl because of its greater surface area and perhaps this is why Davis made both products, powder for convenience in regular use and the pearl for extended shelf life in occasional use. What ever the cause if the OP's glue smells OK when mixed with water it should be fine and dandy but a quick fail test with two bits of wood and a vice would put and end to any debate.

EDIT: Jeff beat me to it by a minute or two.

Cheers

Kim

[Bruce McC]

Thank you Kim and Matthew for your comments. I will certainly test the
glue pearls before using it on anything precious.

[graham mcdonald]

Bring a bit over and we can try it out. You can usually get a good idea of its functionality by rubbing a drop or two of dissolved hot glue between your fingertips.

cheers

graham

[Alastair]

I would say the key lies with "...Smelt bad,..".

This is a fairly reliable indication that there has been bacterial growth, which has damaged the protein structure.

Yes and experiment would always be advisable but how much experience had you with HHG before drawing your conclusion about the Davis product Matthew? I only enquirer as I am at a loss to understand how the product could have deteriorated over time?

My comments above are based upon my own personal experience ...

I'm sorry to confuse you. Hide glue is fairly pure protein. Protein is an organic substance and can denature if exposed to heat, or otherwise deteriorate with moisture, bacteria, chemical fumes etc. In a joint it is fairly well protected, and yes it can last hundreds of years. In a packet you don't know. It might be OK.

My comments above are based upon my own personal experience with the batch of old hide glue of a similar vintage to the pack the orignal poster was asking about. I only use hide glue, none of that modern titebond stuff. I tried to use the old glue and it was shite. Smelt bad, didn't melt properly, joints were brittle and dodgy. Both packets, unopened before I got to them. My caveat stands.