Which bandsaw?

[Tonxi]

It is hard buying large things off Ebay when you live in the bush, 55km from Glen Innes. I have seen a few bandsaws come and go but they are all '"cash on pick up only". Some are going for peanuts but they are all hundreds if not thousands of km away.
I have a friend in Loganhgolme who could go pay for 1 of these if they are willing to hold it till I can pick it up.( He only has a small hatchback so I don't know if he can fit 1 in).
Assuming that I can organize it, which would be the better choice between this Hafco A14 or the 14" Paul Caul?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VINTAGE-BANDSAW- ... 415926a47a

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/hafco-14-bandsaw ... 2a10444f36

[jeffhigh]

I would not buy either of them
They are both old and bottom or the line machines then.
By the time you stuff around with new tyres for the wheels bearings, guides motor etc you would be better saving for a new machine with a greater depth of cut and more horsepower.

[Tonxi]

I can't afford a new one. I am not likely to save that kind of money either as I am on a pension. Also, I am on a generator/inverter setup and the starting load is too much if I go much bigger.
They are both big enough to cut 2 piece ukulele tops and I'm not interested in guitars.
I have seen where people have glued rubber to the wheels and it has lasted for years.
I have a suitable motor.
I want it initially to cut my jigs and necks out. My alternative is a handsaw or a circular saw.
I have my sons tiny GMC but it is terrible and has no blade. It only has a 50mm max height but I could modify it an stretch it to 65mm, but this is still inadequate.

[Clancy]

I have my sons tiny GMC but it is terrible and has no blade. It only has a 50mm max height but I could modify it an stretch it to 65mm, but this is still inadequate.

I had that.
I did that.
It is terrible.
But somehow I still used it to make my first archtop.
Then I ditched it!

[jeffhigh]

In that case the Hafco if you can get it under $200
Looks in a lot better shape, will take a riser if you need extra height later, and even if you have a motor, pulleys and mounting brackets add up
Unfortunately, used bandsaws on Ebay tend to go near to new prices
I used a 9" ryobi for my first few guitars bought it for $50 and sold it for over $100

[DarwinStrings]

I agree with Jeff Martyn, the Hafco looks like the better of the two. Your mate should be able to break it in two and get it in a hatchback maybe too. I have rubber inner tube as bandsaw tyres on my 12" Hyco and they work great once you sand a camber into them.

Jim

If a computer is the tool for today, does that make a craftsman like me a geek of yesterday?

[Puff]

Patience is not just a virtue she can also save you a lot of dollars.
Some work on the GMC and it should be fine for uke necks and molds.jigs. Just make the latter two in two laminates if needs be. For deeper cuts you could look at building your own -"God forbid" I here from the "strewth the Aussie dollar is strong" brigade -Walking Beam saw. I got my original drawings/ideas to work with from a Fine Woodworking article. Built a wee one for scroll saw blade and a bigger one that copped a bow saw blade for resawing. With treadle down stroke (cutting) and spring rebound they worked fine. You can of course power them up.

[matthew]

An aside here - surfing away from this thread I found a few posters (elsewhere) mentioning using layers of masking tape on bandsaw wheels instead of rubber or neoprene tyres. Apparently hard wearing and easy to build a crown into the shape. Anyone ever tried this? Sound entirely possible. My 14" bandsaw needs new tyres, and I'm not sure about inner tubes.

[Kim]

I have refurbed a few bandsaws and for tyres have used urethane which I get from ebay...no glue, just clean up the wheel, stretch them on and roll a screw driver around between the tire and the wheel to even out the tension and your done. They can cut and join the urethane material to fit any size wheel and they are relatively cheap considering the improvement over rubber. They run quieter, are more wear resistant and are easier to install.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/SULPHUR-GROVE ... 4340.l2563

If you have a tablesaw, jointer, or even a dill press, you should also look at the link belts this guy sells while you are looking. These reduce vibration considerably and are very easy to fit.

EDIT: Fixed the link so it goes to the vendor with the link belt.

Cheers

Kim

[matthew]

kim I read that the weld bump on those urethane tyres makes the blade run unevenly. You don't seem to have that problem - what did you do?

[Tonxi]

I have refurbed a few bandsaws and for tyres have used urethane which I get from ebay...no glue, just clean up the wheel, stretch them on and roll a screw driver around between the tire and the wheel to even out the tension and your done. They can cut and join the urethane material to fit any size wheel and they are relatively cheap considering the improvement over rubber. They run quieter, are more wear resistant and are easier to install.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/SULPHUR-GROVE ... 4340.l2563

If you have a tablesaw, jointer, or even a dill press, you should also look at the link belts this guy sells while you are looking. These reduce vibration considerably and are very easy to fit.

EDIT: Fixed the link so it goes to the vendor with the link belt.

Cheers

Kim

As someone who has fixed a few up, what is your take Kim?
The reasons that I am looking at these 2 is that I can get them here in 12 days for almost free.
Anything else would be more for freight or fuel than either of these will probably go for.
I am worried that if I pass on the Paul Call the other will finish too expensive 3 days later and my chance of free and fast delivery will be gone. Also the other one has 50% feedback rating and 0 feedback in the last 12 months.
I saw Woodrat's post about the Australian bandsaws on ebay and the Paul Call looked similar and is bigger. I also look on Woodworker forums and people who had them were pleased.
I could always sell them on later. Things are
expensive around Glen Innes so I wouldn't lose. Of course something else may turn up around Brisbane, in the next few days with a buy it now price.
Thanks to all for the feedback so far. The DIY saw sounds interesting but I don't need the extra work. I couldn't find a picture or plans either.

[Lillian]

You could take a different route all together.

http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/build.html


Oh, I have the Fine Woodworking book with the walking beam article if you want an copy of it.

[Tonxi]

You could take a different route all together.

http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/build.html


Oh, I have the Fine Woodworking book with the walking beam article if you want an copy of it.

I looked at lots of ideas for making your own bandsaw while looking for the article. Too scary for me. I would love a copy of the original article please.

My eldest son bought a job lot of returned GMC tools at auction years ago.
There is a 10" bandsaw among it. The single bolt tore a hole in the mounting bracket for the table. If I turn it round I can bolt it back on and use it for cuts that are level. It has no blade guides top or bottom and no blade. My first thought was to fix it up or use it for parts to build a better. one.
These are ready to go by comparison and if worst came to worst would supply the parts to get the GMC going.
I am keen to get stuck in but need more tools. I made a shooting board today so at least that is something. Plate clamping jig tomorrow and join the plates the day after.

[Kim]

kim I read that the weld bump on those urethane tyres makes the blade run unevenly.

I am yet to notice any issues with uneven running on either the two wheel or 'three' wheel machines I have fitted urethane tires to, but both of these saws are small machines. I have noticed that the weld itself is certainly firmer than the material either side, however we are talking about a section only about 3mm wide if that. I have also noticed that the welds on the tires I have received seem to have been a little over sanded. This is to say that they are sanded to be 'below' the profile of the rest of the material. Perhaps this is done with the purpose of eliminating the "bump" you refer to once the rest of the tire is stretched into position?

I will add that it is essential to 'roll' a screw driver shaft between the urethane tire and the wheel once fitted to even out the tension. The urethane being quite grippy is unlikely to bed itself so failure to perform this step during installation could certainly cause uneven running IMHO.

The bottom line for me is that I would not hesitate to use the product again in the future but that open opinion could change depending on how they perform on a large saw.

Cheers

Kim

[Kim]

As someone who has fixed a few up, what is your take Kim?
The reasons that I am looking at these 2 is that I can get them here in 12 days for almost free.
Anything else would be more for freight or fuel than either of these will probably go for.
I am worried that if I pass on the Paul Call the other will finish too expensive 3 days later and my chance of free and fast delivery will be gone. Also the other one has 50% feedback rating and 0 feedback in the last 12 months.
I saw Woodrat's post about the Australian bandsaws on ebay and the Paul Call looked similar and is bigger. I also look on Woodworker forums and people who had them were pleased.
I could always sell them on later. Things are
expensive around Glen Innes so I wouldn't lose. Of course something else may turn up around Brisbane, in the next few days with a buy it now price.
Thanks to all for the feedback so far. The DIY saw sounds interesting but I don't need the extra work. I couldn't find a picture or plans either.

Martyn,

The Hafco is 'potentially' a plug and play proposition...but don't bet on it as the guides and tires are sure to need some attention even if it just sat there for years..in fact more so if it just sat there for years. The other thing with the Hafco is that it is going to attract the most interest of the two because it appears a going concern, so if you want it, you will pay.

On the other hand the Paulcall is not a goer...It needs a motor and no doubt would also benefit from tires and some TLC to the guides. The upside of this is that competition will not be so fierce so you 'may' get it for a reasonable price.

I guess it comes down to your mechanical ability, if your good at fixing stuff and have access to a motor, then the Paulcall could be a good prospect for you. As you say, even if you decide to move it on at a later date, you will get your money back easy enough out in Glen Innes.

If you do decide to go that rout I will say that I have an old Paulcall jointer...its not a 'great' machine, but it certainly does the job. The quality of the casting is very good, the adjustments work well, but the old school knife block is finicky to set up...However it is a well made machine of its time. The best thing about old school Aussie iron is that there is no plastic to snap and deteriorate and no flimsy tin plate to rust away just after the Asian manufacturer has faded away and the liquidators have scrapped all of their parts inventory.

The point is that because these old machines were more substantially built, you can more often that not figure out a work around if you are refurbing and happen to find any missing parts i.e. there is enough metal to weld to, to bolt to, or to drill and re-tap to get things going again..that is unlikely to be the case with the Hafco.

The worst thing about the old school tools is the complete lack of consideration regarding dust control...but you can't have it all..

I endorse neither machine...but if it were me in Glen Innes who needed a bandsaw for ukes I would bid on the Paulcall.

Cheers

Kim

[woodrat]

I would have to agree with Kim, If I were in the market for a bandsaw I would be happy to pick the Paulcall up for a minimal amount as it is Australian made and the era that it was made in was the tail end of the British mentality to "make em last forever" . I think that you will find that if you get it for a good price and give it a bit of TLC it will be a good small machine for Ukery and other small projects.

[Bob Connor]

Ukery.

What a great term.

Are you going to submit it to Macquarie for inclusion in next years dictionary.

[woodrat]

That sounds like a good idea Bob! Or I could write "The Woodrat Glossary of Lutherie"

[Tonxi]

I prefer the term Lukiery.

[liam_fnq]

Right then, on the next census report I'm putting myself down as a lukier.

Please keep us in the loop on the restoration process if you proceed tonxi. I wouldn't have a clue where to begin.

[Alastair]

Haven't read this thread in detail, so may be repeating, but FWIW:

I have the 14" H&F, the "old " style, with the cast iron frame.

For the price, a good machine, provided you do some fettling. Guides are cr@p, and in my case, at least one of the tyres was flat-spotted.
That apart, it generally does a good job, with some TLC.

Main drawbacks, from a luthiery POV, is that resaw capacity is limited. POS guides mean your resawing height is max ~ 140mm, so you can't do backs, without installing a riser kit.
Further, even if you do, it tends to be underpowered even at 150mm, in hardwood. There is a tendency for the pulleys to slip, and pushing mine hard, I ended up burning out the little motor.

Replaced with bigger, and now plenty of grunt. Might spring for the riser kit now.

[Tonxi]

Haven't read this thread in detail, so may be repeating, but FWIW:

I have the 14" H&F, the "old " style, with the cast iron frame.

For the price, a good machine, provided you do some fettling. Guides are cr@p, and in my case, at least one of the tyres was flat-spotted.
That apart, it generally does a good job, with some TLC.
e3
Main drawbacks, from a luthiery POV, is that resaw capacity is limited. POS guides mean your resawing height is max ~ 140mm, so you can't do backs, without installing a riser kit.
Further, even if you do, it tends to be underpowered even at 150mm, in hardwood. There is a tendency for the pulleys to slip, and pushing mine hard, I ended up burning out the little motor.

Replaced with bigger, and now plenty of grunt. Might spring for the riser kit now.

I thought "fettling" was something you did to a horse!
The 140mm max is enough for ukuleles. I am not interested in guitars.
The Paul Call looks like it would be easy to sneak an extra cm or 2 out of too.
As for guides, these would probably fit the PC somewhere down the track if need be.

http://www.carterproducts.com/product.a ... &cat_id=13

I've got the remains of a dead 10" GMC. I don't have the top guides and the bottom guides seem to be 2 6mm x 6mm rods of white metal with a gap between.
Skate board bearings would probably work better.
The motor is fine.

I see that both saws have an opening bid.
I will bid on the PC as it comes up first. Also I fancy the cast iron and the Hafco will probably end up too expensive.
Any ideas for a maximum price?
I found 2 old planes in my shed that I don't remember buying. I made 1 good 1 out of the 2 and used it to square up my first top.
It is square enough to glue but I'm not sure if it is the EXACT line of grain where I want the seam. I have 10mm each side at least to play with.
I haven't used a shooting board since school 40 years ago. It works well. I set the plane so that it takes about 30 cuts to remove a thin pencil line. Very satisfying.

How about "Lucky Lukier", Liam?

[liam_fnq]

Haven't had the best luck lately Tonxi but I did take delivery of a nice new bandsaw, drum sander and dustie yesterday. Perhaps within the fortnight I'll find time to assemble them and start them up.

[Kim]

I did take delivery of a nice new bandsaw, drum sander and dustie yesterday. Perhaps within the fortnight I'll find time to assemble them and start them up.

Good for you Liam

Cheers

Kim

[liam_fnq]

I did take delivery of a nice new bandsaw, drum sander and dustie yesterday. Perhaps within the fortnight I'll find time to assemble them and start them up.

Good for you Liam

Cheers

Kim

I'll be able to ruin tonewood at a rate I'd only previously dreamed of