Swamp kauri always like cardboard?

[tim mullin]

I probably should be posting pictures to some of my restored posts, but I confess I've gotten myself immersed in a couple of new project guitars, including one with swamp kauri backs and sides. I managed to get some chunks of "white bait" figure and sliced up 4 sets of backs and sides. This is the first time that I've worked with swamp kauri and it's proving to be something of a surprise.

I have never worked with wood that was so hard to work, and yet floppy like cardboard. I used the thinnest set off the saw for this current guitar, and the back is only down to 0.130", but feels floppy as hell. It's going to be an OM size. I'm seriously wondering if I should be laminating this or something to stiffen it up.

Anyone out there having experience with this stuff -- Christian? Does one have to leave swamp kauri seriously thick, or am I in the ball park thicknesswise even with "normal" bracing?

Have never convinced myself that I really like ancient kauri, but being 30 - 40,000 years old makes it very "cool" and of course very "kiwi". This guitar is something of an experiment that I promised I would do if I ever got my hands on some pretty wood (and there's enough material left for 3 more). From the pic, which is only sanded to 120, you can see the little "white bait" swimming through waves.

A 55 mm thick chunk was resawn into 4 back sets

"white bait" figure ancient kauri sanded to 120 grit

[mhammond]

Good Morning:
I built an OM from ancient kauri and adirondack last year. This was a very interesting experience, like you I thought the tap tone was lifeless and dull. However when the instrument was finished it was remarkable, it had sustain on top of sustain. The instrument eventually sold and the new owner absolutly loves it. I had it back in the shop for final setup work after 6 - 8 months and had to agree with his opinions. It had opened up and was a wonderful, resonant guitar.
I wish I still owned it!

kauri 2.jpg (182.01 KiB) Viewed 15303 times

Oh well, I can always build another one............
Mikey


P.S. I bought my kauri in New Zealand while on holiday. Loved the place!

[DarwinStrings]

G'day and welcome Mikey. It does have very interesting figure Tim.

Jim

[J.F. Custom]

Hey Tim.

Haven't used the ancient Kauri before so can't comment on it specifically. Perhaps though, by your description it behaves similarly to Tiger Myrtle? Myrtle taps like cardboard but still makes excellent guitars tonally. There are other timbers that behave similarly as well, though they are not coming to mind presently...

Love the 'whitebait' figure there, very unusual. I've only ever seen this type of grain/figure on ancient kauri too. Maybe it's unique to it, but I stand to be corrected. You could always add that to the timber gallery thread...

Oh, and 'hi' Mike, welcome.

Jeremy.

[kiwigeo]

Swamp kauri...about the same price as whitebait

[Nick]

As you say Tim, Christian would have a better handle on this than most, it's not the first time I've heard the tap tone likened to cardboard (even a wet piece once!) but they obviously go onto make desirable guitars so they must be keeping something back until they are completed, perhaps the ancestoral Maori spirits have something to do with that? . I've never used the stuff but looks like you have some extremely pretty bits to make a geetar out of, good luck with it & keep us posted on progress

[christian]

Hi Tim,

You have there a very nice set of Whitebait Ancient Kauri, i say Ancient because the difference in age between Ancient and Swamp kauri is huge. Both can be used to produce great looking and great sounding instruments but only a small percentage of the wood is suitable.
don't be worried about your thickness it is fine.
It feels floppy because of the grain orientation, whitebait only appears when the boards end grain is running almost parallel to the face, yours looks like its somewhere inbetween which is great cause you will have a bit of flame too.
your choice of guitar size is perfect too, I think it works best in the smaller models. I can concur the sustain is amazing.
I would urge you to have a bit of a practice bending the stuff as in my experience highly figured Ancient Kauri is notoriously difficult to bend, especially tight venetian cutaways.
look forward to seeing the progress of it,
our Aussie friends will be very jelous indeed when they see this wood come alive.
if you need any further advice i'm more than happy to help.
happy building Tim !!!!

cheers,

Christian.

[tim mullin]

I would urge you to have a bit of a practice bending the stuff as in my experience highly figured Ancient Kauri is notoriously difficult to bend ... if you need any further advice i'm more than happy to help.

Thanks, Christian. Perhaps I should take you up on your offer sooner rather and later and ask for any tips you can share to make the bending go smoother. I deliberately chose not to try a cutaway for this first AK instrument. Generally, I bend at 0.075 - 0.085" (1.9 - 2.2 mm) in a Fox-style bender, between wet kraft paper and SS slats, and an electric blanket. I would normally heat to about 250°F (120°C), crank slowly to within 8-10 mm at the waist, bend the lower, then upper bout, finish the waist area at about 300°F (150°C), and cook for 30 minutes at 325°F (160°C). Is AK wanting thinner (already floppy!) more/less heat, water, time, watch for scorching, cupping, whatever?

[christian]

Tim your side thickness is perfect bending process sounds fine too, other than what you have said,
I lightly spray the length of the side around 10mins before bending and then as i'm about to put it in the bender an extra quick spray on the waist.
should be all good Tim.

Cheers,

Christian.

[JJ model]

wow! beautiful looking wood. where can i get them? I loved working with cardboard sounding wood,

[tim mullin]

wow! beautiful looking wood. where can i get them? I loved working with cardboard sounding wood,

I was looking for 4 years on-and-off before I managed to get my hands on wood of this quality. It seems you have to develop a personal connection with a processor and invest some time if you really want to get the good stuff. I almost felt I had to prove myself worthy. A few kiwi makers have carved something of a niche based on this wood and the supply is quite limited -- certainly not renewable.

However, I have seen Ancient Kauri listed by tonewood suppliers such as LMII: http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproduc ... ader=Kauri There is also a US importer/distributor of ancient kauri http://www.ancientwood.com/, and while they don't seem to list guitar sets per se, it appears they've teamed up with RC Tonewoods to select and offer sets from time-to-time (as recently as last August): http://www.rctonewoods.com
I'm sure there are and will be others -- you just gotta keep your eyes open.

[christian]

The very best place to get highest quality Ancient Kauri is Kauri Kingdom up in Awanui. its pricey at NZ 200 + a metre, I believe they are the only certified company that can export the timber.
There is certainly a limited supply of it, knowone really knows how much is left in the ground. once its gone its gone !!!

Cheers,

Christian.

[ash]

I've got a little bit of whitebait kauri in veneer form and some planks. Haven't decided for sure what to make with it yet, but an archtop is high on the list.

It bugs me that this resource is apparently easier to get in the US than it is here, but that's big market buying power for you.