Coloring Timbermate filler

[Dave Anderson]

Hey guys,
I'm thinking about trying Timbermate to fill the pores on a rosewood guitar I'm
building. It seems very easy to use as I did a test board with it .
But It dried light gray and looked bad so my question is, What do you use to color the filler
black for a nice looking rosewood fill ?
Also,I've read some posts that say there is no shrink back using this product but I've
also read where it does shrink. What's your experience with it?
thanks....

[Allen]

One of the Timbermate fillers I have is "ebony". Don't know if it's the same product you have. It does look grey when dry but does turn black under finish. In my experience it does shrink back. One aspect of fillers that dry by evaporation that you're going to be hard pressed to get away from. That's why I don't use it any more.

[Dave Anderson]

One of the Timbermate fillers I have is "ebony". Don't know if it's the same product you have. It does look grey when dry but does turn black under finish. In my experience it does shrink back. One aspect of fillers that dry by evaporation that you're going to be hard pressed to get away from. That's why I don't use it any more.

Thanks . What are you using now Allen? I bought some timbermate from Stew-Mac
and they are claiming it "Fills pores without sinking or shrinking" hmmmm.

[Kim]

I have used Timbermate without any signs of sink back as have others. Have also recently spoken with the Managing Director of Timbermate Group, Errol Mymin re the colour match issue. Errol had a couple of things to say, firstly that the colour you see in the tub when the product is wet is the colour you will finish up with once a clear coating has been applied. The only time the fill will lighten is if a high alkaline coating is applied direct to the fill before sealing, Errol states that high alkalinity will bleach the fill. Many water based clears are high alkaline so this needs to be kept in mind if using Timbermate i.e. seal coat before the finish is applied.

On shrinkage, Errol told me that if the product has been allowed to dry properly before coating, then it can't sink back. Timbermate is the only water-based product on the market that contains no acrylic, latex or solvent. In Errol's words "it is impossible for Timbermate to sink back, it is a very unique product". I know that Paul Burns has used the product with good success and commented that he experienced no sink back. I used Timbermate to fill the Maton rebuild over a year ago and no sink back whatsoever.

I don't know if you followed this thread at the OLF Dave but it is worth a look.

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 42&start=0

I have not had the same issues with colour change that Haans demonstrates in that topic and have never used Behlen's products, but what Haans shows does seem to fit with what Errol has suggested about alkaline bleaching. That said it also looks like any colour match issues can be addressed with the addition of dry pigment as Jim Watts has found. I will be conducting a few more tests in this regard soon and will post my results, but that won't be for a week or so.

Back to sink back, the problem that Allen experienced 'may' be related to the very high humidity found in Cairns QLD. I would imagine that the product being easy to sand would indicate that it is also quite low in density. Therefore it would probably be more susceptible to the up take of RH moisture that most wood. If this is the case then maybe Timbermate is not the best choice in tropical conditions. As I said, no such issues here in WA.

Cheers

Kim

[DarwinStrings]

I recently used their "ebony" on EIR, it was grey when dry but the same that has been said it went black as soon as I hit it with precat, also no shrink back here at least when it is dry and over coated. I apply it by thinning it with metho and water (which may not be advised by the manufacturer) and work it in with rag in small patches then rub it off with coarse rag. I use two applications then inspect and if there is any not filled I hit those spots again. If you use it on lighter wood it does seem to add a little colour to the wood though. I thought I read somewhere (though not sure) that it is not recommended under oil but have made furniture using it as grain fill before coating it with Tung oil and the furniture is fine with a nice oil lustre to it. Oh and that small body acoustic I put in the gallery is filled with timbermate too and maybe because I got a good colour match it didn't alter the wood colour at all.

Jim

[Dave Anderson]

A lot of info in that OLF thread Kim,Jim- thanks guys
I'm going to do some more tests and see how it goes on my E.I. Rosewood.

[Allen]

I didn't get mine from StewMac, but at my local paint supply place that I get all my products from. Couldn't say for sure if it's the same thing or not, but Kim's suggestion that it might be due to high humidity is a possibility, as the instruments that I used it on were built during the wet season. Haven't used it for over 4 years now. I only use WEST Systems Epoxy for pore filling now. No way for it to sink back once it's cured, and it really "pops" the grain like nothing else I've used.

[Kim]

Timbermate is made in Australia. They now have a distributor based in the USA. The product that Stewmac sells is the very same Timbermate product that has been sold in hardware stores here in AU for years.

Cheers

Kim

[DarwinStrings]

I also use dry pigments (oxides) to colour mine, if I want to lighten one of their premixed colours I use titanium oxide but lightening it is rare for me and have only done that to get arty effects on things other than guitars.

Jim

[Paul B]

Yeah, as Kim says I've been using it with good results, wouldn't change it for the world. I don't colour it though, I just go down to Bunnings and buy it in whatever colour I need at the time. You do have to thin it with a bit of water before you use it 'cause the stuff right out of the tub is way too thick.

[Dave Anderson]

I tried a few drops of tobacco brown Trans tint in a bit of the rosewood Timbermate and it worked very well. The pores came out a very dark brown.

Here's the fill with just the Timbermate rosewood ...

PC160047 (400 x 299).jpg (25.05 KiB) Viewed 12174 times

And here it is with the tobacco brown added to the filler...Much better!
Some said the finish will darken it and some not so I'm taking no chances. This works fine for me.
Thanks for all the replys.

PC160044 (400 x 299).jpg (26.02 KiB) Viewed 12174 times