Exporting to the USA

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

Post Reply
User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:29 am

Before the forum got hacked there was some discussion about the ridulous new rules the US has introduced that has effectively stopped export of shell from the USA. Well I may need to send an instrument to the USA shortly and it has some Paue inlay so I needed to find out the rules for import of shell into the USA. This is what I found -

"Thank you for your inquiry regarding the importation of musical instruments with abalone shell from New Zealand that will require clearance by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Our mission is, working with others, to conserve, protect and enhance fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people.

The U.S. importer is responsible for the legal importation of these musical instruments with abalone shell from New Zealand.

If the U.S. importer intends to import these musical instruments for commercial purposes, consistent with our definition of commercial, regulations contained in Title 50, of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 14.91, require that they must obtain an import/export license prior to engaging in business as an importer or exporter of wildlife or wildlife products. The license is valid for one year from the date of issuance and costs $100.00. In addition, as an import/export license holder, the U.S. importer must pay inspection fees for each wildlife shipment imported or exported under the license. For information on inspection fees and how to calculate the inspection fees that the U.S. importer will be required to pay, they can visit our website at:http://www.fws.gov/le/AboutLE/2010InspectionFees.htm

Any wildlife shipment would be considered commercial if the shipment is being imported or exported " related to the offering for sale or resale, purchase, trade, barter, or the actual or intended transfer in the pursuit of gain or profit, of any item of wildlife and includes the use of any wildlife article as an exhibit for the purpose of soliciting sales."

So, looks like if you are sending a musical instrument to a customer for his own personal use then there is no problem. But if you are sending it to a shop for resale then the shop needs to get an import permit (cost $100), get the shipment inspected, and pay the inspection fees. That is a significant incentive not to send to a US based shop! All this for shell that probably cost less than $30 and weighs a few grams. That really is going to stop illegal poaching of Paua in NZ. :roll:

Peter
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:48 am

I have just weighed the amout of Paua in the instrument in question and it comes to less than 1gm!

As far as the Lacey act business is concerned, and the problems with Ebony, I have been advised by my ebony fingerboard supplier in the USA that the Ebony is Diospyros melanoxylon from India. All my Ebony is of course Diospyros melanoxylon from India. :wink:

Peter
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
matthew
Blackwood
Posts: 1188
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:16 pm
Location: Sydney, Inner West
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by matthew » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:53 am

Those rules appear to apply to the US importer, not you the exporter. Whether or not they choose to even bother for a gram of shiny stuff is a matter for them, surely?

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:29 pm

Yes it does apply to the US importer (but not if the instrument is for personal use only), but the US Fish and Wildlife don't know how much Abalone there is unless they inspect it. Regardless, if the music instrument is for commercial use (i.e. for resale), the importer needs to go through these hoops in order to be legal. The amount of material is immaterial. In any case, you need to be aware of the rules and inform the importer or else the importer risks being charged with illegal smuggling of shell, and you risk loosing your instrument. Some people on the US Canada border have had their guitar confiscated and been threatoned with just that. Now whether it would stand up in Court is another matter. To be charged with illegal smuggling of 1gm of shell is silly, but that is the law. Similar rules apply to US exporters of shell, irregardless of the quantity. That is why LMI and the Duke of Pearl no longer export small quantities of shell. Add up the license cost, the inspection cost, plus the pain and suffering of all the paperwork, and it is seriously uneconomic for them.

These new rules are supposted to stop illegally harvested shellfish and illegally logged timber from entering or leaving the USA, a noble aim IMHO, but the implementation is so woeful that it is causing pain and suffering to innocent people and stopping perfectly legally harversted import and export of wood and shell, particularly in small quantities. For the big guys who import and export large quantities it is not a big problem, but for us it makes it very difficult or impossible to sell into the US market. A lot of customers want to see and play your instrument before they will buy, so the only option is to get yourself a US representative who will import your instruments and make them available to the US public. I very much doubt that the person who used to do that for me would be prepared to do it now. Some of us can't survive without the US market because the Australian market is too small. The US authorities seem to have consulted only with the big guys when they implemented this.

I would humbly suggest that when you fill out the Aussie Customs commercial invoice form to state "sale for personal use only, not for resale" under reason for export. That hopefully should cover your US customer if it is a direct order.

We don't want this s*** here! Some Australian politicians are starting to make noises about introducing something similar to the Lacey act here, so we need to be aware of what is going on and make them aware of the problems when and if the time comes.

Off soapbox.

Peter
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by kiwigeo » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:08 pm

Was at my local PO this morning and saw a notice to the effect that all parcels entering the US will be subject to a special "security" fee.
Martin

User avatar
Allen
Blackwood
Posts: 5252
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:39 pm
Location: Cairns, Australia
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by Allen » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:44 pm

Thanks for the update Pete. All good to know.
Allen R. McFarlen
https://www.brguitars.com
Facebook
Cairns, Australia

Richard
Myrtle
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:12 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by Richard » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:32 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Was at my local PO this morning and saw a notice to the effect that all parcels entering the US will be subject to a special "security" fee.
Yeah I saw that when I was in the post office the other day. $9 for packages over about 400 grams bound for the US. I guess this is related to the suspicious/explosive packages that came from Yemen a few months ago. I was in Kalamazoo, Michigan at the time watching it unfold from my hotel room with all the usual sort of cable news gloom and doom. 15 minutes of that had me fast asleep.

User avatar
Bob Connor
Admin
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Geelong, Australia
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by Bob Connor » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:46 pm

peter.coombe wrote
We don't want this s*** here! Some Australian politicians are starting to make noises about introducing something similar to the Lacey act here, so we need to be aware of what is going on and make them aware of the problems when and if the time comes.
Check this out in todays Age

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news ... 18qox.html
Bob, Geelong
_______________________________________

Mainwaring and Connor Guitars

User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by DarwinStrings » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:22 pm

Ha! more hypocrisy. When will they "crack down" on some of the "legally" harvested timbers. The palm oil plantation clearing and other unsustainable logging practises. Legally harvested timber deemed legal by foreign bent politicians taking wallet fattening back handers, bunch of two faced mongrels.

Grumpy old man rave by...

Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:00 pm

I suggest you stock up on wood while you can.

I don't have any problems with stopping imports of illegally harvested wood, just so long as it is implemented properly and has minimum impact on imports of legal wood. Harassing importers of very small quantities of wood or wood products is going to do bugger all to stop illegal logging. If you import by the containter load then that is different. This is where the USA has got it wrong, especially as applies to shell which is far worse than the wood situation.

This looks like a golden opportunity to take some action and inform the minister. If we don't then it could become impractical, ridiculously expensive or impossible to import small quantities of Spruce (or Rosewood, Maple etc) which would destroy us. Remember, most politicians are ignorant, and the small guys tend to get ignored unless they kick up a fuss.

Peter
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
Nick
Blackwood
Posts: 3641
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by Nick » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:20 pm

Maybe I should start experimenting with ways to build a guitar out of Pinus Radiata :?: before I can't import any good wood from the rest of the planet! Got shit loads of the stuff growing here. Probably flattened a whole forest of natives to plant it too! because it turns a profit & grows quickly to harvesting size.
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:30 am

Maybe I should start experimenting with ways to build a guitar out of Pinus Radiata
Ha, ah, funny you say that. I just carved a mandolin top from Pinus radiata (known as P. crapiata by the builders around here). It goes bong in all the right places so should sound ok, but is so ugly I can't bring myself to use it.

Anyway, getting back on topic. It gets worse. Trawling through all the stuff from US Fish and Wildlife service, it looks like even if the music instrument is for personal use only, the US importer needs to fill out form 3-177 and the package must be made available for inspection. Form 1-177 details the species, the amount of material, the source, and whether it was wild or in captivity etc etc. I am not sure if the importer is liable to pay inspection fees if for personal use. I am trying to confirm that with US Fish and Wildlife. Some of the links they send me in the email don't work so it is difficult to get the complete picture. I doubt they would bother inspecting the package if they read the form and there is less than a gm of shell declared. The instructions specifically state that the amount of material is irrelevant, the form still needs to be filled out. Jeepers creepers, no wonder some of the Canadian guitar makers have admitted defeat and have stopping using shell and have switched to wood inlays!
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
Nick
Blackwood
Posts: 3641
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by Nick » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:10 am

peter.coombe wrote: The instructions specifically state that the amount of material is irrelevant, the form still needs to be filled out. Jeepers creepers, no wonder some of the Canadian guitar makers have admitted defeat and have stopping using shell and have switched to wood inlays!
Don't you just love bureaucracy & it's rules & regs! Bloody paperwork will kill the planet before global warming ever will.
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.

User avatar
Taffy Evans
Blackwood
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:54 pm
Location: Charters Towers North Queensland

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by Taffy Evans » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:45 am

Penus Radiata did you say? Here a project from yesteryear.
DSCF5405.JPG
DSCF5405.JPG (34.33 KiB) Viewed 16941 times
I've sent instruments to USA in the past, no problems. But now I understand I have to provide details of the origin of material used.
The provider of my E I Rosewood [now 30 years old] folded long ago, no history. My latest import of EIR was only listed as Guitar Building Materials on the customs paperwork, no history there either.

I have seen it reported that the Lacy Act has made the paperwork much more confusing when dealing instruments internationally, thats when you have located the correct paperwork. One dealer said that he used to send a pre '69 Martin D-28 overseas and just list the country of origin as USA, because that where the instrument was made. Now he is required to list country of origin for all the components of the instrument.
Taff

User avatar
Nick
Blackwood
Posts: 3641
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by Nick » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:23 pm

Image Image
It's funny how it seems to be American authories putting on the "Ecological leader to the planet" face with this sort of 'nitpicking' rubbish, when between them & China, still continue to churn out the greatest percentage of the world's greenhouse gasses. They also refused to sign the Kyoto agreement because of the economical impact it would have on American industry's ability to make $ (bugger the planet, we have a god given right to make money! ). Apologies to our American membership :oops: Image
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10582
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by kiwigeo » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:52 pm

Nick O wrote:
They also refused to sign the Kyoto agreement because of the economical impact it would have on American industry's ability to make $ (bugger the planet, we have a god given right to make money! ). Apologies to our American membership
And the Hummers....dont forget the Hummers :mrgreen:
Martin

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:22 pm

Bloody paperwork will kill the planet before global warming ever will.
Ha ha, Well observed Nick.

Just confirmed that even if only for personal use, the importer does need to fill out form 1-177 in order to be legal. If for personal use there is no inspection fee charged.

This is what I got from US Fish and Wildlife -

Dear Peter,

Thank you for your follow-up inquiry.

If the U.S. importer is not importing these musical instruments for commercial purposes, consistent with our definition of commercial, they do not have to apply for an import/export license but, the Form 3-177 requirement will still apply.

The importation of a musical instrument with abalone shells would still be inspected but would not be assessed an inspection fee.

You can find information on inspection fees and the application for an import/export license at the following links:

http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/2011FeeC ... nChart.pdf

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-3.pdf

We apologize for the inoperative links.

Thank you for your cooperation in complying with our regulations that help protect fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats. Please feel free to respond to this message with any further inquiries that you may have regarding this matter.


Well bugger me, I am cooperating :wink: So what is everyone else doing?

Peter
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by DarwinStrings » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:35 pm

peter.coombe wrote: Well bugger me, I am cooperating :wink: So what is everyone else doing?
Peter
:lol:

Maybe calling their mother of pearl, mother of toilet seat.

All very interesting given that when much of our southern abalone is harvested they throw the shell back in the sea so they don't have to carry the weight back to shore. It may not be as pretty as Paua but still seems a waste.

Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:31 am

I wondered about that, but my US supplier (who is no longer my supplier becasue of the above BS), informed me that the southern Australian Abalone is not good for inlay because the shell is too thin. He did try a few shells, but was not happy with the results. So, it is not really being wasted being chucked overboard.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

User avatar
DarwinStrings
Blackwood
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: Darwin

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by DarwinStrings » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:17 pm

I wonder if he got the smaller black lip or the larger green lip. It could still be used as the laminated variety if it is thin I would think or maybe that is too much mucking around and people prefer the paua.

Jim
Life is good when you are amongst the wood.
Jim Schofield

User avatar
peter.coombe
Blackwood
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: Bega, NSW
Contact:

Re: Exporting to the USA

Post by peter.coombe » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:53 pm

You may very well be correct re laminating, but my (now ex) supplier does not like laminated shell and only supplies solid shell material so I don't know.
Peter Coombe - mandolin, mandola and guitar maker
http://www.petercoombe.com

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google and 114 guests