Progress report on #2

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

Moderators: kiwigeo, Jeremy D

Post Reply
User avatar
Paul Eisenbrey
Myrtle
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:27 pm

Progress report on #2

Post by Paul Eisenbrey » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:57 pm

Hi folks,

I've finished the soundboard for my second guitar, and thought I'd share some pictures for general criticism. Not that it can help this one -- but the next will benefit!

It is Sikta, with some mild bearclaw. The thickness, due to my inexpert planing technique, varies from 2.3mm to 1.98mm (ouch). It is thinner than I expected, so I didn't scallop the braces at all, and the bridge patch is bigger than the design called for. The rosette is some rosewood left over from my first guitar, and the soundhole binding is cocobolo.

By the way, Lillian, I've been working on my planing using some spare 2x4's as per your advice. I've made a lot of wood shavings, and the boards are starting to get flatter. :cl
IMAG0064.jpg
IMAG0064.jpg (72.71 KiB) Viewed 11914 times
IMAG0062.jpg
IMAG0062.jpg (48.88 KiB) Viewed 11914 times
Thanks for looking

--Paul

User avatar
rocket
Blackwood
Posts: 1210
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:43 pm
Location: melbourne,, outer east
Contact:

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by rocket » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:31 pm

Paul, i've never built a flat top myself but looking at the pic of your rosette i'd say it's a fine job. I think also if you've thicknessed that Sitka top by hand using a bench plane with a variation of .5mm i'm tippin my hat to ya, you gotta be proud of that. Cheers Paul, looking forward to more progress pics of this one,,
Rod.
Like I said before the crash, " Hit the bloody thing, it won't hit ya back

www.octiganguitars.com

User avatar
kiwigeo
Admin
Posts: 10845
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Adelaide, Sth Australia

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by kiwigeo » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:52 pm

Looking good Paul. Keep the progress pics coming.
Martin

User avatar
Bob Connor
Admin
Posts: 3115
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Geelong, Australia
Contact:

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Bob Connor » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:00 pm

G'day Paul

Whereabouts on the top did you get it below 2mm?

Depending on where that thin area is it may be prudent to add some extra bracing in that are before you glue the top on.

Regards
Bob, Geelong
_______________________________________

Mainwaring and Connor Guitars

User avatar
Paul Eisenbrey
Myrtle
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:27 pm

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Paul Eisenbrey » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:27 am

Hi Bob (and thanks guys!)

The thin spot is at the waist on edge of the treble side. I let the finger braces go all the way to the side (C & N's book tapers them to nothing before the lining), hoping that would strengthen the area. I thought of putting a small brace parallel to the edge, about the height/width of another finger brace, but so far I haven't screwed up my courage far enough to slap something so obviously unconventional on the top.

If you have other suggestions I'm all ears!

--Paul

User avatar
Allen
Blackwood
Posts: 5255
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:39 pm
Location: Cairns, Australia
Contact:

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Allen » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:53 am

It would depend on how far towards the sound hole the thin area went. Is it going to be sitting squarely on top of the linnings? That's pretty good support.

It's also common practice to thin the lower bout around the perimeter to get a better response. I do that up to the waist on most of my guitars.
Allen R. McFarlen
https://www.brguitars.com
Facebook
Cairns, Australia

User avatar
Kim
Admin
Posts: 4369
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: South of Perth WA

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Kim » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:24 am

Looking very good so far Paul....to me the bearclaw sitka top looks like it could be from Brent Cole...the amount of claw and pinkish tan colour looks familiar. If so the stuff I have received from him in the past has been 'very' stiff, so I am thinking that the thin area of the waist may not be such a problem, but as Allen suggests, that would depend on how far it extends toward the soundhole.

It is difficult to tell from the images to see just how tall you have left the finger braces, but it is worth mentioning that one of the reasons why these braces are taken down to nothing on the ends is to eliminate the chance of them forming stress risers. My own experience is that the taller the brace is left at the end, the more chance it has of popping or splitting upon any impact with the top. Something else to consider as well is that the finger braces seem to have more impact on the tone of the instrument than do the tone bars. In fact back when I was fooling around inside cheap old guitars to try and make them sound better, the finger braces where my first target. So my point here is that they should not be considered as purely structural just because they are small.

Finally, if the thin part of the top 'is' a concern, and it does in fact encroach too far toward the soundhole, you could always use a soundhole patch to introduce some integrity. This will have 'far' less negative impact on the tone of the instrument than leaving the fingers too big...Fitting such a patch is a real bitch if you do it after you have cut out the soundhole as you have already done, but it can be done with paper templates etc, I know cause I have done it myself.

Here is an image of what I am talking about. This one was fitted 'after' the original soundhole was cut when I had a change of heart: note the grain direction of the patch?
soundhole patch.jpg
soundhole patch.jpg (78.12 KiB) Viewed 11825 times
Cheers

Kim

User avatar
Bob Connor
Admin
Posts: 3115
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Geelong, Australia
Contact:

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Bob Connor » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:52 am

That soundhole patch was exactly what I was going to recomend Kim.

The finger braces do have a role to play in stopping the bridge rotating so that area through the waist is quite important structurally.

The soundhole patch will have the effect of strengthening that area to resist the rotation of the bridge without having much (if any) detriment to the tone of your instrument.

I would also measure and shape a small brace that fits along the back end of your bridge plate. If you feel that the top needs some beefing up in that area you can glue that brace in after you have finished and strung up the guitar (and made an assessment as to whether it needs it or not.) Even though you you have made the bridge plate larger it is not especially big (not by what I do anyway)

Mario Proulx (Canadian luthier uses this. If you Google "proulx pmte" you should get some further information about this.

(pmte stands for "proulx magical tone enhancer"

Regards
Bob, Geelong
_______________________________________

Mainwaring and Connor Guitars

User avatar
Paul Eisenbrey
Myrtle
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:27 pm

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Paul Eisenbrey » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:29 pm

I like the soundhole patch. And the magic sound improvement brace is a great idea if I find the top deforms too much. THe patch looks like the same wood as the top, from the picture. Could I substitute a thinner piece of, say, cherry? I don't have any extra spruce: LMII sold me just enough for the soundboard, with a knot sticking within a couple of inches of the waist. :x (It's beautiful wood, but I would have liked a clear board.) If I thin it down to 1.5mm, would it still be too heavy?

The challenge, after cutting the patch to fit an existing hole, of course, is that I'll have to re-bind the soundhole. Otherwise it is going to look a little odd. :lol:

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll post more pics after I implement this. Maybe I'll have a proper camera by then. My phone camera is not the best...

--Paul

User avatar
Bob Connor
Admin
Posts: 3115
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Geelong, Australia
Contact:

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Bob Connor » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:52 pm

I would try and get some spruce if you can Paul due to its lightness. Whereabouts are you situated? There should be a wood supplier nearby that can supply you with a small piece of spruce. It doesn't have to be master grade stuff for this application.

There is no need to re-bind the sound hole. Just cut the hole in the patch 1/4" bigger than your soundhole. You won't see it from the outside of the instrument.
Bob, Geelong
_______________________________________

Mainwaring and Connor Guitars

User avatar
Kim
Admin
Posts: 4369
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: South of Perth WA

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Kim » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:10 am

Paul, Bob is correct, spruce would be best, even if it was made up of a few bits joined together, that is what I done for the patch in the image, and making the whole a 1/4" bigger all round will make life much easier.

Cheers

Kim

User avatar
Paul Eisenbrey
Myrtle
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:27 pm

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Paul Eisenbrey » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:45 am

Spruce it is, then. I'm in Seattle -- there is bound to be some wood around here somewhere... :)

--Paul

User avatar
Lillian
Blackwood
Posts: 1700
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:31 pm
Location: New Mexico, USA
Contact:

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Lillian » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:27 am

Paul, if you can't scrounge up enough, let me know. I think I might be able to help you out.

I know you live on the east side, do you work there as well? I'm through Seattle 4 days a week.

User avatar
Kim
Admin
Posts: 4369
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: South of Perth WA

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by Kim » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:40 am

Your an absolute gem Lil :git

Cheers

Kim

User avatar
P Bill
Blackwood
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:31 am
Location: Cedar Vale, Qld Australia

Re: Progress report on #2

Post by P Bill » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:09 am

Keep at it Paul it looks good. All this info helps me as well and I file it away." Making Things Out Of Timber " How to get out of trouble.
"Were you drying your nails or waving me good bye?" Tom Waits

Bill

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 99 guests