Re: Kerf Linings

[kiwigeo]

Pete Howlett wrote:


End of the day, I don't like the squiggle wood lining - it's ugly

However I really want one of those saws!

You don't like the funky squiggle lining because it's ugly??!! LOL..I disagree.

However I think we agree that the saw is definitely NOT ugly.

[WaddyT]

Personal opinion only, but I believe Greg Smallman just came up with a new idea. It doesn't mean its best for all guitars. Each guitar has it's own personality and the sides play a part in that, as do backs. I prefer a guitar with a very active back in addition to an active top. Done properly it makes a really sweet sound. I have not heard a Smallman that I really like, yet. Maybe someday I will. There's an emptiness there that leaves me wanting, though is is very loud, but loud is not everything. Drums are loud. Banjos are loud.

[Kim]

Ervin Somogyi prefers a very thin reactive back and top and I believe very rigid sides. I think Rick Turner works the other way with a rigid back (carbon fiber composite over the seam reinforcement strip) but again very stiff sides and the same deal with Greg Smallman. For me, laminated solid linings seem a good investment in time as they offer the ultimate in strength, stiffness and that clean, clean look.

Having said that it won't stop me from using reverse kerfed linings. Quickly cut on the Ksled you can have the spacing what ever you want them to be. So for a cutaway instrument you simply tighten them up and if they still won't conform then a few simple cuts with a sharp chisel to remove the cheeks at the start of each kerf in the tight spots will solve the problem.....that said linings are really no more than a series of glue blocks left un-seperated for convenience of installation. It seams that sometime we have a capacity to spend far too much time focusing on the pointless to finally split that bloody hair.

Cheers

Kim

[Puff]

Lillian your blood is worth bottling. Won't buy one but will build a dead simple one just for making kerfing. A great use for broken bandsaw blades or 25c hacksaw blades. Thanks very much for the link. Reckon any strength issues with the finished squiggle can be sorted with a bit of gelatin glue soaked bias binding. Can't see ugly in there. Thanks.

[Paul B]

I do 'em same as Bob - wet 'em and bung em in the bender for a few minutes.

You want 'em to look "special", Ask Craig. His are two piece, take a lot of time (I imagine) but look like the best I've seen. (Craig's guitars look as good on the inside as they do on the outside - which is pretty bloody spectacular!)

[Lillian]

Puff wrote:
Lillian your blood is worth bottling. Won't buy one but will build a dead simple one just for making kerfing. A great use for broken bandsaw blades or 25c hacksaw blades. Thanks very much for the link. Reckon any strength issues with the finished squiggle can be sorted with a bit of gelatin glue soaked bias binding. Can't see ugly in there. Thanks.

How did you know I'm a rare blood type, especially for Australia???
This will give you a better idea of what it is capable of doing.


youtu.be/

Here's a review that is worth the read.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-too ... /msg45126/

I agree that the easiest way to stiffen kerfed linings is to cap them, but I don't know if fabric is the best suited for the job. I would be more inclined to go with a cap of veneer.

[Craig]

Paul B wrote:
You want 'em to look "special", Ask Craig. His are two piece, take a lot of time (I imagine) but look like the best I've seen. (Craig's guitars look as good on the inside as they do on the outside - which is pretty bloody spectacular!)

This type of lining was designed ( as far as I know )by Charles Fox. As Paul states ,they are a two part arrangement . The kerfed part has a rebate to accept the capping .In this case I used Black Walnut for the kerfed part and a 2 mm. thick Sassafras capping .
img~
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[DarwinStrings]

Thanks for putting that up Lillian, now all I have to do is find the time to make one. They sell the blades in about .5mm and .3mm kerf 5 at a time, if I can't find a reasonable substitute.

Jim

[sebastiaan56]

Lillian wrote:
I agree that the easiest way to stiffen kerfed linings is to cap them, but I don't know if fabric is the best suited for the job. I would be more inclined to go with a cap of veneer.

Rick Turner uses CF tow, as he has added to previous threads

[Puff]

Hi Lillian -already been there and drooled.
With you Jim on a home build and their blades come out to about NZ$40 before shipping. Will have a trial using broken bandsaw blade and possibly approach Thode Saw and Knife to see if they can do up a 24" length of super thin and wide blade.
Lillian. Alexander the Great's army was kitted out in armour made of layered/laminated fabric(linen?) and hide glue. Very light and strong and with the same sort of "give a little" as modern day armour. Yes CF is great but am trying to move away from epoxy as far as practicable. As a substrate between veneers gelatin glue soaked linen adds amazing strength. Silk is even better but.....

[J.F. Custom]

Bridge City make beautiful tools, no two ways about it.

Carba-Tec carried the range years ago when I worked there so I had opportunity to handle many. Alas unfortunately, they did not sell frequently due to their expense - thus proving to be non-viable from a business perspective so the range was eventually discontinued. I brought the original Jointmaker v1 to the attention of management with the intention to import and sell, however it never went ahead - the market for it was just not there to justify the purchase. Sad but true.

For those investigating making your own; no need to import blades or test hacksaw or dead bandsaw cut-offs. For what it is worth, I don't think you would have much happy success with at least the latter either Puff - not enough teeth per inch; too thick a kerf and the wrong style of tooth to cut in this action. It would be very aggressive and rough at best, not smooth and accurate.

What you are looking at is essentially a "Japanese Pull Saw mounted upside-down." Pretty much what the original unit was. Being pull cut, it is mounted so that your 'push' of the timber cuts smoothly. Anyone who has used a Japanese pull saw by hand will know how quickly and aggressively they cut, yet smooth and with the smallest of kerfs. The particular grind and hardness of the teeth allow this. Sure, it incorporates this blade into a fixture that allows rise and fall of the blade to be set, along with tilt, on a stand that has a smooth and accurate sliding table of sorts. But essentially that is it - make it as simple or elaborate as you like. If you want to try your own, buy a replacement Japanese pull saw blade from one of the major suppliers - kerfs are available from 0.3 to 1mm so plenty to choose from depending on what you have in mind.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

[Lillian]

How cool .... http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/l ... armor.html

Silk is available in ribbon, but I'm only been able to find the expensive stuff. I used it to reinforce the sides on the one I'm working on. I think I'll be looking at our Goodwill (second hand store) for silk scarves and the like. Cutting them up into strips may be the best solution.

I'm another one who does whatever possible to avoid using epoxy. HHG, fish glue and Titebond are my go to glues. I did use epoxy for this fingerboard, but will be trying something else for the next one. My brother tried his hand at building a kayak. He got a bit of epoxy on his forehead wiping the sweat off. It's been four years now and the spot still flares up every few months and looks like a chemical burn on the mend. It's just not worth the risk.

As for the blade, Highland Woodworking has a Japanese style blade for a frame saw that might work. http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/turb ... mesaw.aspx Its 700mm long, 32mm wide. Its not a direct replacement , but it a thought.

[Puff]

Hi Jeremy - all I have in mind for this is to cut kerfing ala squiggle. Shallow cuts in small section cedar. Same bandsaw blade cut the 'standard style' kerfing. Will see if I can get 3/16 depth out of an 18" push before I go the Japanese route. Cheers

[Pete Howlett]

You'll find a suitable japanese saw blade from the German tool suppliers Dick for 18.9€. which according to my currenmcy converter is $27 AUS.

It wont work with a bandsaw blade because the tooth form is designed for ripping with the grain and not cross-cutting. If I could be so polite as to point out you are not getting it Smile Japanese pull saws have a completely different tooth configuration from the Western one which is designed to 'micro cut' if you like, the fibres in cross cut form. Because the teeth are so finely spaced apart on the cross cut style and their form is like hundreds of sequentially opposing knives you get an incredibly fine cut across the grain with fibres being severed rather than ripped...

I've used Japanese pull saws since my cabinet making days and they really take quite a bit of getting used to. the fine kerf allows for very little course correction and they really work best on softwoods - the material they were originally designed to cut. The bridge city Tool Works solution is an incredible bit of genius - I've watched all the vids. My mate here in the UK and I are working on a simple design for one for fret slotting and kerfed lining - I've had enough of noise in my workshop and working through 20 fretboards and miles of kefed lining, even with ear defenders makes my ears ring!

[Puff]

Well stuff a stoat with pineapples. At 18tpi for a 1mm kerf I thought it was a crosscut blade. Been wrong all these years
At the risk of repeating myself I am not trying to set up anything more than a dead simple device for making squigglewood style kerfing. If I cannot get adequate depth in one pass the failure will have only cost me time.

[Pete Howlett]

Stuff a stoat with pineapples! roflmao

[DarwinStrings]

Stoat stuffed with pineapple, sounds like you have been watching too much Master chef.

I was thinking of this tools wider application not just guitars and had not considered making linings with it. I have a jig for kerfing my linings and could eat a pie (or pineapple stuffed stoat) while I cut them as it operates one handed.

I had a look around for blades and the ones from Bridge city are not that expensive also they measure 420mm long by 75mm deep which seems a good size for this type of tool.

Jim

[Mike Thomas]

As Pete says, it seems perfect for cutting fret slots. A dedicated version for cutting fret slots would be very easy to make, and very accurate using the LMI or Stewmac cutting templates. For Australians, Bunnings sell the Tajima saws, and their 230 saw blade cuts very cleanly, and has a .55mm kerf (about .022"). Replacement blades only cost about $8. The length of the toothed portion of the blade is just over 210mm, which should be enough to cut a fret slot with one push.

[Pete Howlett]

Wow - that's a good price. Personally I would go for a .6mm kerf. I find my .022" Stewmac tablesaw blade makes for a very tight slot and since I fret my board off the neck have to deal with back bow...

[Puff]

Agreed Jim their price seems as good as. Lillian's suggestion is also worthwhile for a longer -read deeper - cut with the same aggression. Were I doing more acoustic or cabinet/joinery work I would look at the whole kit and kaboodle but am not, so presently won't.

[Pete Howlett]

If anyone's interested I am working on a 'static' version of that funky tool using my Stewmac Japanese fret slotting blade. Here is an initial schematic
img~

[Mike Thomas]

Very interested, Pete. More diagrams with labels would be very useful, and you may get some worthwhile input from forum members as well.

[kiwigeo]

Lillian wrote:
Silk is available in ribbon, but I'm only been able to find the expensive stuff. .

I just rip up my wife's nighties.....it takes a bit of explaining come bed time though but I just tell her I couldn't wait for her and got into a lust driven frenzy with her nightie before she came to bed.

[Insomnomaniac]

kiwigeo wrote:

Lillian wrote:
Silk is available in ribbon, but I'm only been able to find the expensive stuff. .

I just rip up my wife's nighties.....it takes a bit of explaining come bed time though but I just tell her I couldn't wait for her and got into a lust driven frenzy with her nightie before she came to bed.

And you think that will HELP???

[Lillian]

Insomnomaniac wrote:

kiwigeo wrote:

Lillian wrote:
Silk is available in ribbon, but I'm only been able to find the expensive stuff. .

I just rip up my wife's nighties.....it takes a bit of explaining come bed time though but I just tell her I couldn't wait for her and got into a lust driven frenzy with her nightie before she came to bed.

And you think that will HELP???

Ummm, I'm with the Insomniac on this one. I can't see that going over very well. In the throws of passion, maybe, if it's not one of her favorite ones. But not needing her to be in the nightie for you to get all worked up, nope, not gonna fly very well.