suggestions about hand planes for thicknessing?

[bernm]

Hello. I'm wondering if anyone can please advise about choosing a suitable hand plane for thicknessing (sides, back, soundboard, etc)?

I'm wondering what the basic requirements would be for a plane suitable for this step? What range of sizes are suitable? Are there any brands that you might recommend, or any to avoid?

Many thanks
Bern Merchant

[Kim]

Hey Bern, I moved this question to the main forum to attract more traffic and to keep the tutorials area specific to tutorials.

Most of us use a thicknessing sander for this task although a plane is a good option as well. What ever brand you choose, apart from say a really high end plane like a Lie Nielsen, will need to be well fettled, set up and honed if you are to avoid tear out. Techniques are also important for using a hand plane like knowing when to work 45 degree to the grain etc.

My first option if I was to work without a thicknessing sander (makes me shudder to think of it Very Happy ) would be to use a Wagner safe-t-planer and drill press to reduce the plates down to workable dimensions, and then use a smoother like a No4 Stanley to finish.

Here is an image of a Wagner at work, its a handy tool to have at hand.:





If you want to be completely old school, a Stanley No4 will do the whole job but make sure you get an old well made example from ebay because even if you buy a brandnew plane, it will still require work to get it right, so you may as well make it worth your while and grab a tool from pre 1960's.

Another option if you want a really superb plane is to buy a HNT Gordon smoother, Terry's stuff is simply brilliant and whilst a bit Xie, its worth every sheckle and it too is ready to go right out of the box.

http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodcatsmoother.htm





Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

I use either a Veritas No 4 smoother or a Leigh Nielsen No 4 smoother with a toothed blade. The toothed blade allows me to easily see where Ive run the plane and its also handy for working back and side woods with rogue grain.

Once Im down to near final thickness the plane gets put away and I finish off with a cabinet scraper. My tops vary in thickness (eg thinner at periphery of lower bout) so cabinet scraper is the best tool to achieve this

[Peter T]

I agree with Kim and have been using the Wagner plane and a home made thickness sander. My first guitar however was all done with a hand plane which, despite being quite time consuming, was a worthwhile exersize.
Stanley/ bailey no. 5 was my weapon of choice.

[Pete Howlett]

I have a

Millers Falls #15 foreplane
Millers falls #9 2" smoother
American Stanley #4 1 3/4" smoothing plane,
Millers falls #16 low angle block plane
Stanley 9 1/4 low angle block plane
Record low angle block plane
Assorted Indonesian ebony thumb planes that are modified to molding planes



All but the thumb planes purchased off eBay - your best source for tools (and that includes the 20 odd chisels I have also modified for luthiery purposes).

Yep and I have a Safe T planer that I use plus a little gizmo



that I make and market similar to the Safe T planer that fits in a drill and sands to thickness - research John Gilbert for the germ of the idea and if you want one of these (I only make the smaller version) pm me.

If you are hand planing then use vacuum chucks to hold your work and research planing against the grain on wide pieces.

Get a combination waterstone and honing guide and make sure before each planing session you sharpen your plane...

[kiwigeo]

Bern theres an HNT Gordon plane for sale here. Better be quick if you want it.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/hnt- ... de-119320/

[Kim]

Oooooowww!...........that IS hard to turn down, even got the HSS blade so it won't stay for sale very long.....must resist....must reeeeesist arrggghhh, weakening...........muuust reeesiiist!!!

[kiwigeo]

No it will be sold by tomorrow.

Ive picked up a few goodies on the Ubeaut forum market place of late. Yesterday I picked up a nice big beefy Japanese made Makita 1850 watt router for my router table.

[kiwigeo]

No it will be sold by tomorrow.

Ive picked up a few goodies on the Ubeaut forum market place of late. Yesterday I picked up a nice big beefy Japanese made Makita 1850 watt router for my router table.

Looks like Matthew jumped on the plane...just before I put in a buy order for the thing.

[matthew]

sorry

[reconstructor]

Reply by "tomigv"

When thicknessing by hand tool method I use first, a scrub plane with a curved sole . I use a reground number 4 cheap smooth plane to hog off large amounts of wood, next is a number 5 jack to smooth out all the grooves until flat. Then a number 7 jointer plane to plane board flat. A narrow mouth number 4 smoother e.g low angle #4 lie nelson can be used to plane the surface,so that only a light sanding is required cheers ernie

[Kim]

Sound like you need to get your guitar sets resawn a little closer to the mark there Ernie, most i have worked come off the bandsaw at around 4mm with relatively light saw marks that only require a basic smoothing out, I did make a table top once and used a scrub plane and a jack but those tools are long gone.

Cheers

Kim

[Lillian]

Yep and I have a Safe T planer that I use plus a little gizmo
that I make and market similar to the Safe T planer that fits in a drill and sands to thickness - research John Gilbert for the germ of the idea and if you want one of these (I only make the smaller version) pm me.

Pete, what are the measurements on yours? What part of the world are you located?

[Pete Howlett]

The larger one is 5" and the smaller 3". The centre cut out of the 5" anulus makes the 3"anulus. And you need this configuration to make it work. The only grit is use is 60 and the ones I buy are used for stone cutting. You need a rise and fall table or some way of fine adjusting the chuck height. You also need a very good and rigid quill on your pedestal drill. An old cast iron job is best. I like in the UK.

[bernm]

Thanks guys. Lots of good advice there. Though of course I'd stop checking for a few days and miss that plane on sale ...

[Lillian]

Bern, if you are going the hand plane route, make sure you understand what sharp is and how to get it. Sharpening is a skill set that you have to be dedicated to learning if you want to enjoy using a hand plane. And keep in mind that different back/side woods may require a different angle. A lot of the pretty woods have interlocking grain which needs a high pitched plane. I haven't had the pleasure of using a HNT Gordon plane, but it has been pointed out to me that if I were to get one I could turn the blade around and use it as a scraper plane. That's not a feature to ignore. I know that Lie Nielsen has a York pitched frog option for some of their planes. Extra sheckles but a nice upgrade. If you don't want to go either route, get a toothed blade as Martin suggested. It will help tame wild grain. Oh and don't forget to get a few good quality scrapers. More is better than less, you can grab another sharp one if you are in the middle of something instead of stopping and sharpening the just the one you are working with.

[kiwigeo]

sorry

Just dont ruin that plane by running it over that mouldy spruce I sent you. Actually youd better lock that spruce in a safe.....a couple of times the mould got so bad the wood started walking out of the workshop by itself.

[matthew]

Plane arrived yesterday. I've never had to sharpen such a thick chunk of HSS ... persistence, persistence ... and i think I'm going to have to buy another stone to do it justice. I suspect that is why previous owner sold it.

However after sharpening it and cutting myself (initiation rite) i gave it a run on an ebony fingerboard last night ... and it performs Mr. Green

The mouldy spruce, dear fellow, LOVES it over here. In fact I am setting up an embassy in my workshop promising safe haven for dud spruce sets, and will gladly grant permanent protection visas and a good home to any sets that find their way over here.

Right now there is a job for some spruce with 7 rings per inch to match the grain on this blasted bass plate where the corners have been knocked off.

[Clancy]

I've just started my first two flat top guitars and used the Safety Plane followed by HNT Gordon Smoother (tap adjustment).
One B&S set is tas mytle and I didn't have any problems.
The other set is tas blackwood and while the smoother worked great (as usual) the safety planer either burned the wood at higher speeds or 'tore' out the grains ar slower speeds.

I am just starting to thickness the spruce top by hnt smoother but am having trouble.
The blade either doesn't bite at all or, after a slight adjustment, digs right in.
I am very used to using the hnt gordons now (ebony, rock maple, gidgee, etc) but this is the first time I've tried them on the softer woods.
Is there something I'm missing in the setup?

Just to cover the bases, I sharpen with water stones & veritas honing guide and get excellent results. For the smoother blade I have 'knocked off' the corners to stop marking.
Maybe I'm just heavy handed after all the hard woods I've put this plane to.

My treasure chest.

[image missing: 202_22062010118_1.jpg]

[Kim]

Great treasure chest Craig.

As for planing spruce, try working at around 45 degree to the grain and see how you go.

You will find that grain runout can cause issue, the plane will work OK on one half but want to tear on the other unless you rotate the top end for end as you work so you are planing with the direction that the grain is emerging from the surface of the top in each half. Clean up with a fresh tuned scraper that has been only 'just' rolled so the burr is negligible.

That is what has worked for me anyhow.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

Great treasure chest Craig.

As for planing spruce, try working at around 45 degree to the grain and see how you go.

You will find that grain runout can cause issue, the plane will work OK on one half but want to tear on the other unless you rotate the top end for end as you work so you are planing with the direction that the grain is emerging from the surface of the top in each half. Clean up with a fresh tuned scraper that has been only 'just' rolled so the burr is negligible.

That is what has worked for me anyhow.

Cheers

Kim

Works for me. I always have planing direction marked in pencil on each half of the top so I don't go digging out huge chunks. With the tooth bladed LN its less of a problem.

Being able to use a cabinet scraper should be a requirement for membership on this forum.

[Clancy]

Thanks guys,
I'd marked the grain direction but haven't run at 45deg, although I hold the plane at an angle.
Probably a case of 'practice makes perfect'.

Oh, and by the way, I must be magnetic cause I always seem to have a cabinet scraper stuck to me.
First tool I learnt to use, then learnt to sharpen, then learnt to use again properly.

[graham mcdonald]

Craig,
Alternatively, come over and run the stuff through the sander

cheers

graham

[Clancy]

Thanks Graham, I appreciate the offer.
I'm not in any hurry though so I'd like to learn the way with hand tools first, which is just going to mean more practice. I'm hoping to reach that 'relaxing concentration' zone you can get into when carving arched plates.
If I ever start selling these things for real I would definately move to thickness sanding for speed, accuraccy and repitition.

[reconstructor]

Reply by "tomigv"

thanks kim. I do have a large bandsaw, and large 37 in thickness sander. I should have explained, that the hand tool method is for people who have no access to power tools, or prefer hand tool methods. In use a well sharpened scrub plane can make quick work of thicknessing a guitar top or back from 4.5 or 4 mm down to 3mm. My 2 cents worth cheers ernie

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