Best way to get Instruments Overseas

[woodrat]

Hi, I would like to hear from those members who have had experience in sending an instrument overseas. What are the expected costs to send to the States or Europe and who to use as a carrier and who to avoid. Thanks in advance to all who reply for your wisdom.

John

[kiwigeo]

The best way is for you to buy me a business class air fare to the US or Europe and Ill hand carry that guitar for you

[woodrat]

... methods other than Martins suggestion??

...which was good by the way...

[tim mullin]

Last quote I got here in New Zealand to the US was about NZD450 from TNT (recommended by another Kiwi maker). I thought that was totally absurd, but then found that NZPost wanted double that. I think all carriers in NZ have greatly increased their prices in last year or so. The length of the package is a big factor -- a parlor guitar or banjo would be MUCH cheaper, but anything from OM up seems to be outrageous.

As point of reference, I brought in some Cedar Creek cases -- quite heavy -- from Virginia by USPS and they were about US125 each. Seems that planes going the other way burn a lot more fuel.

[Kim]

The issue is not fuel or transport cost, its the size of the ULD's (Unloading Loading Device) that the carrier quoting you is using. If your item can fit 'uniformly' (Not diagonally as that will dramatically reduce the volume of cargo they can fit per m3 and also usually leads to damage) into their ULD, then it fits their handling system and will be relatively cheap to send. If your on the other hand you item does not fit into the ULD, it becomes a logistical PIA and they price to deter as it requires more man handling from go to whoe and quite often will be contracted to a 3rd party carrier anyhow ......So you argue, why can't they make their ULDs bigger? They argue, why can't you make ukes?

Jeers

Kim

[DarwinStrings]

Jeers

Kim

Australia post is not bad but as Kim says, the size does really matter. If you can squeeze the package down below 1050mm then you are fine, to U.S.A is about $120 for a electric. If it is longer than 1050 (like a dready) then brace yourself when they are about to tell you the price or you will lose that mouthful of beer across the room. One other thing when it comes to insurance. If you insure it and it breaks they will asses the packaging before they pay up, if you packaging is deemed not good enough then they will say it was not adequately packed and not pay up. Also with packaging they can quote you on what they call, I think, a volumetric weight. They have a little chart and measure the volume to calculate what weight they will use for pricing. If it weighs 5Kg and is packed in a rectangular box they measure length, width and height and come up with 10kg. They rarely do this with a odd shape like a guitar case shape so it will then go on its real weight.

Jim

[Lillian]

Kim, how does the insurance work leaving AU to the States?
For us shipping to you, the insurance is pretty much worthless. It stops the moment it gets handed off to your postal system. And unless the AU postman refuses to take it because of damage, you can't prove that it was damaged before it left USPS' custody. No proof, no money.

[DarwinStrings]

Did you mean Kim or Jim Lillian? Australia post insures for the complete passage of the item door to door if posted to the U.S.A. They only insure to some destinations though, the U.S being one of them. I recently got them to quote me a price to send a guitar to Israel and I could not insure it however they did offer to move it through another company that will insure to Israel. The postage to Israel was about $110 and to insure it and send with the private mob was $180.

Jim

[Kim]

Lil

All insurance is strictly about passing the buck with the idea being to pass on less bucks than you are given to start with. In fact the truth is that any insurance, whilst often nesseary is quite a dodgy concept...Lets look at what is actually going on when you insure your car for instance. When you make contact with an insurer, you are effectively approaching a bookmaker. You are walking up to them and saying, "I bet you $1000.00 that sometime during this year I will crash my car, and not only that, but when I do its gonna be all my fault" The insurers says "OK, I'll take your money bets on, just sign right here"..........and then off you go spending the next 12 month driving around as careful as you possibly can to ensure that 'they' win the bet. Crazy stuff when you think about it.

Anyhow back OT..With postal insurance you have a situation either way where the buyer/receiver is the one who will loose if the item does not arrive. But the shifty carriers will only deal with the seller/sender because even though it was the buyer/receiver who 'paid' for the freight and insurance, it was the seller/sender who actually 'purchased' those product. So it is up to the party who has nothing to gain to go through the hassle of claiming for the buyer/receivers loss, and as you say, once and item passes from one carrier to the next they are going to claim it had done so in pristine condition even if it was smashed to bits, 'AND' because the receivers money paid for insurance from the senders carrier, it is unlikely the receivers carrier will honour that cover simply because nobody even gave them two pieces of goat shit on the whole deal so their reality is that the consignment has only ever been a 'liability', an 'obligation' they must fulfill under a simple agreement that says we will move yours in our domestic system if you move ours.....this leaves much room to pass few bucks and leave the receiver out of pocket if you ask me...all very dodgy stuff that probably should be called 'ensurance' cause it seems wired to make 'ensure' that the paying customer gets screwed if anything goes wrong with their process of making money.

More Jeers

Kim

[peter.coombe]

I have sent probably around 70 or 80 mandolins and mandolas to the USA and Europe. With one or two exceptions I have always used DHL. I tried UPS, but that shipment was nothing but trouble and never used them again. I have never used Aussie Post becasue of the package size restrictions, insurance uncertainty, and Australian and USA Customs can be a PITA to deal with. DHL handle all the Customs stuff so is much easier. Unfortunately the costs have escalated to such an extent that I am considering using Aussie Post for the next shipment. DHL charge on a volumetric basis, so padding costs as much as the space taken up by the instrument. Less padding means higher risk. With one exception, DHL have been reliable and usually quick. If I drop off a package to the DHL depot in Canberra, it will arrive at it's destination in the USA 2-3 working days later. That assumes no delays in USA Customs. The one exception was a mandolin that got delayed in USA Customs for a week during a LA heat wave. I had no idea LA was experiencing a heat wave at the time. Why it was delayed I don't know, but it arrived with some serious heat damage. I had insured it with DHL and claimed on insurance. It took a while, but the insurance company agreed it was damaged and paid out in full and I was able to refund the customer in full. I was lucky in that I had pictures of the undamaged mandolin taken a few days before I shipped it. So, DHL insurance does work, but I would recommend you photograph it and pack it well.

I am not advocating you use DHL because the costs are now ridiculous, but it does to a large extent boil down to how much risk you are willing to take. Pay more and the risk is likely to be less. Personally I prefer to take less risk and use something that is tried and proven, and even subsidise the customer to some extent on the costs so as to lower the risk. An instrument that gets damaged in transit or is delayed for some unkown reason can be a very stressful and time consuming thing both for you and the customer to have to get through.

I now live in a small country town on the far south coast of NSW. DHL don't have a depot here, but they can pick up. However, the last time I used their pickup it took 5 days for the package just to get to Sydney. Not only that, but they "lost" the Customs forms, even though I gave them 3 copies. I would rather drive to Canberra and deliver to DHL Canberra than to use their pickup form Bega. The problem is in country areas they subcontract to local carriers who are not exactly famous for their efficiency. Things happen slowly in the country.

No doubt about it, it is getting more and more difficult to export musical instruments. Costs of transport are escalating and there is increasing amount of documentation the USA government requires. There is a free trade agreement in place (FTA), but occasionally USA Customs will charge import duty as a risk control measure. If that happens you then need to supply documentation to your customer that proves the instrument you made conforms to the rules of the FTA, and they need to foreward it to USA Customs. Unfortunately the FTA is the most unbelievably complicated document that will take you days to decipher. There is a different rule that applies to each good, and you need to work out the appropriate rule. In the case of mandolins and guitars thankfully the rules are the same, but from memory there are 3 rules that apply and you need to choose the most appropriate rule that applies in your particular individual case. Instruments of the violin family have completely different rules. The FTA agreement is different from other FTA's and USA Customs officials are not necessarily familiar with the rules and can demand documentation that cannot possibly exist under the USA/Australia FTA.

Added to this is now the requirement to document every single species, the country of origin, and the weight of each species of wood that is incorporated into your instrument if the value is over $2500. This IMHO is nothing but a form of trade restriction, and is a clever way of getting around the aims of the FTA. Who among us does document the weight of every piece of wood that we incorporate into our instruments? Do any of us know the species name and the country of harvest of the Ebony we use? Personally, after a long period of mostly trouble free exporting, I am beginning to wonder if it is all really worthwhile now. I hate the paperwork, and the most recent requirements is definately an example of ridiculous bureaucratic paperwork that will acheive precisely nothing except to create a paper mountain and employ bureaucrats to shuffle the paper mountain. Then maybe that is what they want to achieve??

[woodrat]

Great posts Guys (and gal Lillian)... Please keep the info/your experiences coming. Its great to hear so many responses in one day.

[Allen]

I checked prices for sending guitars to the USA from all the usual guys. Costs being born by the purchaser, and they all nearly died when I told them.The very least was $450 for a 000 size guitar. The most was $850. I settled on using Australian Post. Cost for a 000 is around $135.

It's funny, because it's too big to be sent within Australia, but just squeaks in to go overseas. We called up the head office for this sort of thing with Aust Post, and they told us to find a "friendly" post office to send it. Once it gets into the system, no one will every question it's size. The just deal with it like any other parcel.

Never had a problem with any of the instruments that I've sent with them.

I'd like to use a courier, but as Martin said, you could just about hand deliver it for the price they are wanting to ship something nowadays.

[DarwinStrings]

It's funny, because it's too big to be sent within Australia, but just squeaks in to go overseas.

Allen, were you quoted a longer length restriction than 1050mm for international Aust Post? If that is the case I need to argue the point with my post office as they check that everything national or international is under the 1050mm mark.

Jim

[Kim]

The AP limit of 1050mm applies to ALL parcels regardless of weather they are local or international. In fact the same restrictions apply in relation to 'sending' things to AU because of AP's logistical setup ie; the very same reasons I pointed out above, the size of their ULDs. It has to be this way because even the international stuff still has to travel from the PO to the mail centre in the very same ULDs or from the mail centres out to the delivery centres in the same size ULDs.

Yes there is some postal employees working at post offices who are not quite as observant as others, so some things do get into the system that 'are' over size. Yes, if over size articles do get into the system then AP will probably deliver them simply because it is easier to do so rather than trying to get you back in the shop to pick it up and issue you with a refund. But believe me, if you want that situation to change so that AP cracks down hard on their employees to ensure they all learn to work strictly to the rules, just keep spreading the word on internet that its all OK if you find the right PO. Don't forget, this is one of this countries largest corporations we are talking about here and they are finding it hard to deal with decreasing mail volumes due to electronic redundancy. Sooner rather than later AP 'WILL' put and end to this simply because it is costing them money in damaged freight, loss of cargo space, and logistical incompatibilities.

Some times when your screwing shrew tis best to do so very quietly less she wakes and ruins the moment.

Cheers

Kim

[Pete Howlett]

I've almost given up on exporting to anywhere other than Europe. As a ukulele builder I try to keep my packages below 2kg in weight, have my boxes made especially for me so they come under the dimensional weight vs real weight dilema and with judicious use of 1" expanded polystyrene, manage to produce a damage proof method of shipping.